The Duke case? Hardly. The now unraveling fantasy story–somewhat unbelievable on its face–of white athletes raping a black stripper is coming to an end with very few mea culpas from those responsible for this farce.
No, I’m talking about the kidnapping, rape, and double murder in Knoxville of a rather angelic-looking white couple by a couple of thuggish black ex-cons. This case is truly awful; the facts speak for themselves:
Investigators believe Channon Christian was held hostage and raped repeatedly for several days before being killed, a federal marshal said today.
The news came on the same day that authorities captured three men sought for questioning in her death and that of her boyfriend, Christopher Newsom.
Authorities believe she and Newsom were abducted after a weekend carjacking in North Knoxville that ultimately led to both their deaths, said Chief Deputy U.S. Marshal Rich Knighten of the Western District of Kentucky.
“They did some really nasty things to this lady,” Knighten said.
Newsom was shot and his body burned, Knighten said. He said he didnââ¬â¢t know how Christian died.
Federal and local authorities nabbed Letalvis Cobbins and a friend, George Thomas, about 10 a.m. Thursday in Lebanon, Ky. Knoxville investigators had received information that Cobbins had a relative there.
Lemaricus Davidson was arrested about 3:35 p.m. in Knoxville by KPDââ¬â¢s Special Operations Squad, U.S. marshals and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents.
Cobbins, Davidson and Thomas are suspects in both killings, Knighten said.
The Duke story has shown, at one and the same time, the mendacity of an amoral white prosecutor and the enabling effect of a pandering liberal media. To uphold their worldview of the evil western white world (and their own moral superiority to it), liberals make up white-on-black crimes and give massive coverage to those few that do occur. This distorts the real story: blacks in America commit disproportionate crime to their numbers, these crimes have gone up considerably since the vaunted civil rights era, and most inter-racial violent crime in America remains black-on-white. Stories involving illegal alien killers, homosexual black rapists, and repeated black on white rape-murders receive almost zero airplay, and when they do the race of the offender is often obscured. Who knows about the Witchita mass killing? Who knows about black serial killers Coral Watts or Mark Essex?
The combined effects of the media’s failure to report on these crimes, the constant anti-white messages in the culture, the revolving door aspect of the justice system, a lack of white group solidarity, and a background regard for fairness and equality among whites have disarmed white Americans from the violent reality of multicultural America. In this milieu, crimes like this can happen without even raising eyebrows.
The media and the public needs to face reality: black crime of all types is very high; there is no shame in putting violent black males for a very long time in proportion to their rates of offending; cases like James Byrd’s are as unusual as the recent double murder in Knoxville is common; white fear of blacks is thoroughly rational, as blacks commit homicide at 7-10X the white rate (a rate equal to the disproportion of male offending rates to those of women); media reporting of black violent crime often conceals the reality, lest we get a “misimpression” (i.e., a statistically valid one) that black males are way more dangerous than whites; and, finally, the pre-civil-rights era deserves thorough revisionism by historians and others to investigate whether the harsh measures taken by the white majority–white flight and restrictive covenants, for example–may have been defensive in nature, responses to the very real threat of black-on-white violence as communities become more “diverse.”
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Aren’t you basically assuming these guys are guilty, even before they’ve been charged? Isn’t that exactly the same sin as the prosecutor in the Duke case?
they’re guilty.
Burn The Bastards. Markels individuals like you should be held accountable becaause you,re an idiot. You have to be a damned liberal.
I’m pretty sure they’re guilty. But if they’re not, I’ll write them an apology and send them both a fat bag of chronic to make amends.
I want to know where the “good reverends” Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are in this case. It wasn’t 5 minutes and they were in Durham after the Duke “rape”.
They don’t care when a white girl gets raped by black guys, but flip it and it’s front page news. What has this country come to?
Whats missing in the MSM reporting is the highly likely racial motivation for the mans murder and the rape and torture the woman endured for days. A black couple may have been carjacked, a black man murdered, but a black woman wouldnt have been held and gang raped and otherwise tortured for days on end.
These animals were “sticking it to whitey” and thats exactly why this case wont be on national news and Ed-Op pages for months.
I’m from Knoxville and these kids were friends of friends of mine, and I know one of the investigators. This was not a racially-motivated crime. This was a carjacking. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Channon was not held for several days, as the federal marshals incorrectly reported. Both Channon and Chris were killed on Sunday. As horrific as it is, I don’t believe it is racially motivated. But it is interesting to note how both races immediately assume that interracial crimes are racially motivated.
I’m an attorney and a liberal (Mike) and this is simply another example of how our justice system has failed the Chris, Channon, Knoxville, and the perps. Cobbins and Davidson are both convicted felons. Who obviously weren’t rehabilitated.
We can only hope that this time, Davidson’s punishment will be permanant.
To be clear, I don’t think this necessarily was racially motivated. I don’t know why they did it. I don’t know why blacks rape white women so much more than whites rape black women. Nor do I know why blacks commit ten times more crime than whites. I don’t know why they rape at a higher rate in general, nor do I know why so many of them belong in jail.
This reality is simply bad for everyone, but goes under-reported because noticing bad black behavior is now out of fashion. It’s well known, for example, that black offenders mostly victimize other blacks.
But I do think this high black crime rate that is not widely reported shows double standards in the media, as well as a real problem among American blacks that needs to be addressed A good start would be long prison sentences for those criminals that do rear their heads and a commitment by the civilized majority of whites, as well as those few blacks willings to call out other blacks for their bad behavior, to impose standards on the black and Hispanic criminal underclass.
Whether out of racism, habitual criminality, a low IQ, or just naked savagery, this kind of black-on-white crime against a beautiful and promising pair of model citizens is inherently hateful and must occasion outrage.
sorry EMB – this WAS a racial hate crime. there was apparently an altercation between the couple and one of the black savages at a local dance club because the young lady refused to dance with the black guy. her boyfriend had the gall to step in and tell the savage to leave his girlfriend alone.
his response ? go get a couple of his white-hating driends, carjack and kidnap the couple and murder them. being turned down for a dance was their motivation.
she may not have been held for a couple of days (hopefully) but she was raped before her death.
and people wonder why many whites simply do not like the black race. this is why.
It’s all well and good to comment on the Left and mainstream media double-standards, Chris, but did you have to link to an anti-Semitic site to do so?
What we need are public hangings every saturday morning at 9:00 am. Don’t keep putting violent offenders in jail, after the first chance at rehab strung them up. Being the father of 3 teens, two of them 16 yr old girls, I would dish out my own justice own these dirt bags.
Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way disputing statistics or facts of interracial crimes. And don’t doubt my outrage, sadness, and grief that I am feeling for my friends who were close to Channon. Channon and I went to the same high school (she was younger). This crime hits very close to home for me, and is in absolutely NO way excuseable. As I said before, I hope Davidson dies for this crime.
But Smoothie, don’t spout off facts unless you know they are true. I just spoke to Channon’s friend who went to the funeral today and asked if they had been at a dance club. Nobody has heard that. The facts are still unclear, but it is known that they were at a friend’s apartment in a not-so-great part of town. They ate dinner and Channon spoke to her mom at 12:30 on Saturday night. Channon had a 2005 4-Runner and in a sworn affidavit, Eric Boyd (charged with accessory) stated that Davidson told him they wanted the car, that’s why they walked up to the car and took it at gunpoint. The fact that Channon was absolutely gorgeous was most likely the reason they kidnapped them.
Davidson was released from prison in August for carjacking and aggravated robbery.
People are going to believe what they want to believe, and I think that this crime could just as easily have been committed by two white people, and it would be just as heinous. Or by anyone without an education and with criminal record.
I guess when something like this hits so close to home, you don’t really care what color the perps are.
Ironically, the high school that Chris Newsom graduated from has no black students. They aren’t welcome there.
Lest we forget, Remember the
hmmm, guess it got caught in the spam filter.
Zebra Murders:
http://mensnewsdaily.com/blog/stix/2005/10/lest-we-forget-remembering-zebra.html
Some of those sites and authors are themselves racist in the other direction, but the underlying facts are all correct and speak for themselevs. And actually it was necessary to do so because there are no mainstream media compilations of many of these cases that are compiled in a neat, presentable fashion like that. So my linking to these factual reports (yes in some cases I double checked the sources) does not imply any endorsement of their overall ideology. It says a lot though that we have USA Today devote major resources to the pseudo-trend of “church burning” when the real trend of black on white crime is ignored.
EMB, I too am from Knoxville, and liberal lawyers like you, who refuse to make blacks responsible for their actions, contribute immensely to the perpetration of these crimes by thinking these savages can be “reformed”. Hogwash. As far as their guilt, they have admitted their crimes, fingerprints have been found in the victims car and I’m sure DNA evidence collected. It would benefit Knoxville if they were hung from the Gay street bridge until the buzzards pick the bones clean. THAT is the message we need to send. I too want to know where the good Rev. Jackson and Co. is when, as Roach states, the crime rate of blacks on whites is so disproportionate.
I see racial hate is still alive and well in TN. I have to wonder who/how US Marshal Knighten obtained the information he released to the news media.
BA-When did I say blacks shouldn’t be responsible for their actions? All I said was that I didn’t think it was racially motivated. I’d have no problem putting them all to death, and if the Gay Street bridge, Henley Street bridge, or the tree of their choice was available to hang from, I’d support it 100%. Furthermore, I don’t think that majority of criminals are able to ever be reformed. If Davidson hadn’t been released from prison in August, or if he hadn’t been able to illegally obtain a handgun, Channon and Chris would still be here and I wouldn’t be receiving the tearful phone calls that have been coming every day since Sunday.
Of course people need to be held accountable for their actions. Please read my posts more carefully and refrain from accusing me of attributing to the perpetration of crimes like these. Just because I don’t think that every single interracial crime is racially motivated doesn’t mean I don’t think that black people should be held accountable. That is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgvmmyDpzHw
EMB, for what it’s worth, I’m sorry about your friends and appreciate your decision to comment here. This is very awful, a very raw event, and likely some clarification will be forthcoming about what happened exactly, and why . . . particularly as these monsters begin to flip on one another. That said, I felt obliged to put this crime and its reporting into a broader context that will likely escape the mainstream media.
Mier, stop being an imbecile. Innocent until proven guilty is still the law of this land. If the state of interracial crime is as obvious as Roach has made it out to be (an assessment I’m not disputing — I’ve not studied the issue), then there’s no need to jump the gun on these guys, any more than people convinced of white racism jumped so readily on the Duke case as evidence of their preconceived notions. It’s stupid on both sides. So brighten up.
Frankly, I find many comments on this thread to be disturbing. Roach, it’s topics like this that attract the, er, roaches.
Thank you. I appreciate it and I know that Channon and Chris’s families and friends, as well as the entire Knoxville community do too.
FYI, if anyone wants to follow the latest news, you can check:
http://www.wbir.com
http://www.knoxnews.com
http://www.volunteertv.com
In my opinion, these young white individuals were carjacked because they were white, appeared unable to defend themselves, and had a vehicle which was less that two years old. Had they been black, I doubt these thugs would have attacked them or attempted to attack them.
There is some concern that the carjacking occured in the Old City area of Knovxille or on the University of Tennessee campus and law enforcment is not advising where these horrible attacks were initiated, perhaps further endagering other members of the public while the university and/or the City of Knoxville complete their own investigation.
Just as food for thought: Bill Cosby’s son and Michael Jordan’s father were both murdered by white men. I would hate to think that either of those actions would represent me in any way. I don’t know if the recent double murder was racially motivated or not, but I don’t think those guys represent the majority of the black community. As for “Reverends” Jackson & Sharpton, I don’t think most black people take them seriously any more than I do.
James, the guilt evidence so far sounds pretty strong: they found Channon’s body at the house owned by two of these guys, one of their fingerprints was inside her 4-runner, and at least two of them have prior criminal records for violent crimes. It’s true, they deserve a fair trial, but since we’re all just bystanders here–and since most DAs are not Mike Nifong–I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the general public assuming this is true until some contrary evidence comes out, particularly as these guys have criminal records.
As for bringing out the rif-raff, I would reserve my anger for the animals who perpetrated this crime. A little bit of understandable over-reaction in anger and frustration in the face of these repeated offences is somewhat forgiveable, wouldn’t you agree?
these men have admitted to their crimes. follow the news.
It has happened in the past that people have confessed to crimes they did not commit, Stephanie.
Roach, if there’s nothing wrong with the general public assuming guilt in this case, then there was nothing wrong with assuming guilt in the Duke case either, right? Along with all the ramped-up emotions and hatred that go along with such an assumption, correct?
I’m not angry at the riff-raff. But I find the ease and speed of the racist comments to be disturbing. That black-on-white crime is more prevalent than white-on-black crime is worth nothing, but then terming such perps as “savages” and such only fuels racist fires on both sides, to no good end.
I hear where you’re coming from James, but I think a little bit of natural human “righteous anger” is called for here. Also, unlike more complicated cases–say Enron or even the Scott Peterson case–the evidence of guilt is clear-cut here. In Duke there is no evidence of guilt, other than the word of an often-intoxicated and sometime psychiatric patient/stripper. Plus, and most important, the DNA exonerated the defendants there.
Incidentally, I didn’t comment much on Duke until very recently because I thought guilt was at least possible, and I was content to let the process run its course. I know that drunk, rowdy young men–even young white men–can do bad things in the right circumstances. It appears almost certain now that didn’t happen, but it was not beyond the realm of possibility.
What these men did was savage and gratuitous. Armed robbery is one thing. It’s a serious crime, but it has a certain Machiavellian logic to it. But rape, murder, burning bodies, and so forth. That is savagery, and I should say that there’s nothing wrong with noting it because it is all too common and completely underreported when it comes to black on white crimes in the US today.
Blacks march on the local PD the minute some drug-dealing dirt-bag gets wasted by a cop. Would it be so terrible if once in a blue moon whites organized a march to protest this kind of horrible crime.
I am a Knoxvillian who know knows one of the victims and was deeply touched by this tragedy. I feel for the victims and the family. It is disturbing to me that this crime has become racially charged. As the facts have been laid out now, believe that all four suspects are guilty and look forward to their punishment; but the fact that suspects are black should have no bearing on the black population. Granted, blacks are involved in higher rates of criminal activity, but you CANNOT hold the entire black population accountable for the actions of these four individuals any more than you can hold the actions of Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, or Hitler against all whites. It’s 2007!! Some of you need to take a class on racial and ethnic diversity!!! Perhaps instead of complaining about what is happening you should take time to think about WHY black crime rates–against whites and nonwhites–are inherently high; it has a lot to do with the structure of our society and our negligence in adjusting addressing issues like poverty, education, and the flaws in our legal system. That being said, neither poverty nor lack of education are justifications for a life of crime. Davidson still should have been in jail for his 2000 conviction, in which he was sentenced 8 years in prison…why was he out in the first place?
I think one of the important reasons for this is that we do not recognize this as a trend, even though we recognize things like Islamic terrorism as a group trend and a Muslim/Arab community problem. I think another important reason is a certain reluctance to impose standards on the black community in general; a certain degree of immaturity, lower standards, and higher rates of crime are tolerated . . . particularly by black communit leaders. Finally, I think whites are reluctant to recognize how great a proportion of crime in America is caused by minorities–who are poor, indeed, but also generally fatherless and disproportionately violent compared even to poor whites–for a variety of reasons, including a sense that this is all just morall justified payback. Bill Clinton, to his credit, called out rap “singer” Sista Souljah for suggesting there should be a week where “we just go out and kill only white people.”
Finally, I’m going to start deleting comments like James Earl Ray’s above. Keep it civilized and on topic people. While the black community may bear some collective responsibility for its tolerance of socipathic rap music, fatherlessness, and convoluted theories of black crime, it is certainly not the case that the majority of them are guilty of this kind of misbehavior.
At least one of the guys has confessed that I have read about at this point – and I do NOT believe it was racially motivated (not agreeing with EMB cause I am NOT a liberal) but I do believe that they ended up kidnapping the couple because Channon was such a pretty white girl and they wanted to have fun with her – and as Chris tried to protect her things got out of hand. I have kids and would be mortified if anything like this happened and would want the killers dealt with in a manner equal to what they did to my child. My heart felt sympathy goes out to the families of these two beautful loving children. Prayers are going up for your recovery to help get through this.
Kill them now! Let GOD decide if they’re guilty
The whole thing makes me sick. I cannot get it off my mind, having children of my own, who do the same things as these young kids. Go out to eat, watch movies at friends apartments and on occasion frequent the old city. I cannot imagine how anyone, black or white, could commit such cruel crimes. I can only believe that these 4 men do not think like normal people. They are monsters from the devil and deserve nothing less than spending eternity with their master, the devil. I will never forget this crime as long as I live. Chis and Channon were beautiful young people with a wonderful life ahead of them but was taken from them for nothing…..These men are nothing to me but dirt.
racially motivated? No. However, if the races were reversed, this story would be running on cnn and the likes all day for the next year. I for one am sick and tired of it. Someone please alert the good Rev.Jackson, and find out his response. This weekend my friend (ill call him Joe)was at a bar in an area that could be called very back woods. There was an altercation between Joe and a couple of blacks there. I am sure that Joe started this, however, only words were exchanged until Joe left to go home, at which time the blacks were waiting for him in the parking lot in their car and proceded to hit Joe and then run over him. I am sorry but when you run over someone with your car, you intent is to kill! Knowing Joe, I am sure he had said some nasty things, but come on ! I am tired of feeling guilty for what happened 400 years ago. I am tired of being looked at and being talked to by black people like I owe them something. My great grandparents did not own slaves, they worked their own farm. I owe nothing to anyone and I tired of the left wing media making us all out to be evil white people.
Most crimes are based on social-economical factors. The crime itself was not race based, just the media coverage. The reactions and blogs are raced based and it only goes to show one’s opinion on a race. By using the same logic of blacks being more prone to crime, then whites are more prone to strip other cultures of their heritage and imprison or eliminate any group that doesn’t assimilate into white society (Native Americans, British Imperialism of the India and S. Africa) There is not one continent on this planet that has not been severely altered and corrupted at some time after it has been “discovered” by whites. If this phrase offends you, then you should be able to understand the frustration of using a crime, committed by a particular group of individuals, to describe a mindset of an entire race. That’s an scapegoat and supports ignorance. It would be just as wrong for any minority to assume that whites do not have any sense of direction, since it is mostly whites that are featured in news segments of people being lost in the wilderness. Or how about whites being poorer drivers since I personally have only seen news segments about auto and train collisions involve nothing but whites? That ridiculous.
There’s an objective to covering this event from the angle that the media decided to address this issue. They have sponsors and advertisers to please or they won’t be afford to pay their employees to report the news. The media companies are running a business. You can use them objectively as a point of reference for further enlightenment on your own views or you can allow the media to completely dictate your perceptions of reality and priorities (insert the term Gate Keeper right here). The choice is yours. You may be alone in your decision, but it’s still your choice, regardless of race. You are either a leader or a follower. The best leaders will inspire others to be great leaders. Whichever side of the fence your stance is on, the goal should still be to make this world a better place.
Morpheus your powers of critical reasoning are a bit off. I did no generalize from a single incident. I used this event–and the underreporting of it–to explore some evidence of important group differences. The single incident is a metaphor or synecdoche of those broader group differences, which are confirmed not by a single incident or competing anecdotal evidence, but by statistical data involving large data sets from the NCVS and the UCR.
As for the alleged evils of western white civilization, it’s true from disease and other factors–including conquest and what would today be called “ethnic cleansing”–primitive Indian civilizations were removed from their ancestral lands, and other civilizations were threatened by western man, particularly during the 19th Century. I don’t always justify or approve of these things, and there is an element of tragedy to them all. But I’d say in general, in a world of scarce resources, inferior and weaker civilizations always lose when they come into conflict with stronger, more organized, and more technologically advanced ones, whether we’re talking about the western and the non-western world, or the ancient Hittites, Chinese, Mongols, Mayans, etc.
This statement, “here’s an objective to covering this event from the angle that the media decided to address this issue. They have sponsors and advertisers to please or they won’t be afford to pay their employees to report the news. The media companies are running a business,” is undoubtedly true, but the commercial motive does not fully explain the media preoccupation with things like the Duke cases or other made-up pseudo-scandals, nor does it explain why corporations themselves have bought into this diversity agenda. Ford, GM, and Microsoft do not demand the mainstream media’s rabble-rousing, anti-white agenda. There is something else afoot, an ideology of liberalism that always excuses the other and always looks to “blame whitey” and internalizes the values that judge whites and blacks by different standards that somehow always manage to excuse black misbehavior and turn it into a virtue of sorts, revenge for “500 years of oppression” or whatever cliche they’re taught in sociology class these days.
jt, michael jordan’s father was killed by daniel andre green, a black guy, who was convicted in 1996.
these kids might have been down there in that area trying to buy drugs. i can’t imagine why else they’d be driving around down there. i don’t know that i’d say it’s a racial crime, though. these guys are animals. they are predators and when they saw these two naive kids, they considered them prey.
James Earl Ray,
Martin Luther King is rolling in his grave because he can’t believe that ignorant people like you, and other people who made racist comments still think the way that you do. You people kill me thinking that this was some racially motivated crime. The guy had a history of carjacking. That was his motive. It is unfortunate what happened to that innocent couple, but it could have easily been me or anyone else. I have no sympathy for the suspects, and if they are guilty, then they should be punished appropriately. But I am not going to bear the burden of other peoples actions, nor take responsiblity for their horrific crimes. Crimes are committed everyday by all people and against all people. No one is immune to it. One more thing…… Black people aren’t the only ones on welfare, fatherless, and commit violent crimes. It is Evident that racism still exist, and its your ignorance that fuels it.
Moron-pheus
Blacks had enslaved their fellow blacks long before the evil white man appeared on the scene. Get your facts/history straight.
Your comment that “Most crimes are based on social-economical factors” has been heard ad nauseam. To belie this fallacy, I again point to history. There was virtually no crime during the Great Depression. Conversely, the greatest increase in crime occurred during the 60′s — which had one of the lowest rates of unemployment and poverty in history.
No, black on white crime is exponentially higher than white on black crime. Why the media hides this dirty little secret is beyond me. I can only attribute it to political correctness.
I am not a racist (I truly am not), and while I am also an attorney, I am not a Liberal. However, I do believe in looking at objective data regarding interracial crime. Once you look at the numbers you will see that black crimes against whites are astronomically high. Let’s not be afraid to call a spade, a spade (no pun intended).
This is such a tragic event; my heart goes out to the victims families. However after stumbling on the page and reading these after reading these comments, it amazing how everyone is so defensive to avoid being labeled a ââ¬Åraciestââ¬Â. The funny fact of life is that everyone is raciest; every society through out history has been racist in one form or another. ACCEPT IT! After reading these comments a few things come to my mind. Numbers donââ¬â¢t lie: black youths comment move violent crime than anything other race (FACT). Black crimes are never reported at the level white crimes are (FACT). Here in Roxbury, (Boston Mass) these types of crime happens on an almost weekly basis. Boston is a very raciest city and most wealthy people (white, black ect..) would just rather let ââ¬Åthe bad elementsââ¬Â, destroy themselves, its ok cause they rarely cross Mass Ave anyway. Now in Knoxville itââ¬â¢s surprising to find that this has not received a lot of media attention. Whether this crime is racially motivated or not thatââ¬â¢s not the way most people will look at it. The fact of the matter is that the white majority of people in Knoxville fail to say what they really think for fear of being labeled a ââ¬Åraciestââ¬Â (which most are), and the vast majority of black people want to blame everyone else for there problems cause its easier to play the race card then face there own racial failures in life. Look how far Jesse Jackson gets vs. Bill Cosby and Allen Keys. I find actually that all races are very raciest, one of the failures of humanity. I wish people both Liberal and Conservative (black and white) would just accept they everyone has racial prejudices and work together for a better understanding. I donââ¬â¢t think that will ever happen with a quick lesson in world history. So I guess we will all continue to pretend not to be raciest and blame everyone else. Sighââ¬Â¦Ã¢â¬Â¦I wonder what MLK would have thought? BTW Jesse Jackson has nice suits on TV.
my apologizes for misspelling “racist”, English is not my native language
tenn_smoothie how do you know that Channon was asked for a dance from one of the killers? Were you there when this happened? Where did it happen at? Tell us what you know. Enquiring minds want to know what you know.
Regardless of the sick motivation for the crime..these black bastards need to fry! Jesse and Al could not get to Duke University fast enough when a black stripper falsely claimed she was raped by white boys! In this case, you have 2 young educated white people carjacked,murdered and burned, raped, tortured,and Lord knows what else! But try to find any mention on national news (insert sound of crickets )..you will not hear it! The liberal media will be as quiet as a church mouse! I say fry the hoodrat bastards. When a few more law-abiding people start fighting back, then and only then will these hoodrat thugs get the message. If any thug, regardless of race, tries to carjack me, I have six friends waiting on him. Their last name is Smith & Wesson! May they burn in HELL!!
People here should stop beating dead horses. OK, the mainstream media MSM is biased. When it comes to issue of crime involving race, the MSM will lie, cover up. OK, that’s the way it is. Let’s have less whining that the MSM and Jessie and Rev. Al aren’t honest and that the Duke rape case wasn’t presented in a fair manner. Stop restating the obvious. Good, innocent people like this young couple are getting robbed, raped, tortured and murdered. Don’t give up and don’t go back to watching the stupid lying MSM television boob tube. Get active and find true sources of news and act to restore law and order in your communities. *ãã&@ the MSM, who cares about Jessie, Rev. Al the NAACP or the Southern Poverty Law Center or the national Dems or GOP? Here are some good sources for news about what is really happening:
vdare.com
amren.com
Triplem,
Let me clarify what a carjacking is! A carjacking is when you STEAL someone’s car, not murder and rape them. This may have started as a simple carjacking but something else gave them motive to murder and rape, and that more than likely had something to do with the color of their skin and their social status. Jealousy is the perpatrator of the majority of violent crimes against all races. Unfortunately, though I have many black friends, I still believe the black population feels that they should be able to take whatever they want without working hard to get it. Anybody that wants to argue that point in defense of the black community, I’d be happy to take you for a ride thru many communities in the area. And NO, you can’t say that everyone is an individual, since many of these ideals concerning something being owed to blacks, is mainstream throughout many generations, it is still being passed thru each generation that “oh, we’re oppressed by something so we oughta get something for free”. I don’t judge by color of skin, but I can certainly tell you that the majority (NOT ALL) black people I deal with feel that the world owes them something. It’s a mindset that no one BUT the black community can deal with, or else the rest of the world will deal with it as we feel suitable.
So Triplem, please explain how you feel a simple carjacking resulted in murder. If this was a simple carjacking, why the hell didn’t they just kick the two of them out on the street and take off with the car? THAT’S a carjacking!
The funny thing about crime is, it’s not the criminals that is the problem, it’s the justice system. Ever heard of the term SWIFT justice? Well, I’ll tell you right now, after the 17 appeals and delays this case will go through, you’ll be lucky to see a conviction by 2009. And sentencing by 2010. The problem with that is that the punishment loses it’s luster. No one really feels the justification and by the time these guys are convicted, many won’t even remember the names of the victims. THAT is the problem!
Yes, Mier, it’s so much more just to hold ME accountable for the actions of someone I’ve never even heard of before and have never interacted with, as you argued in your first post. Quite frankly, “ass-backwards” has been your approach to this whole issue from the start. Or perhaps just “ass.”
Zeagle, you’d get faster (and cheaper) justice if you went for life in prison without possibility of parole instead of the death penalty.
James,
You are correct but you’re not fixing the problem. Have you been paying attention to the Michael’s case lately? This has dragged through court for nearly a year and they still haven’t even set a trial date. The family of this child wants to see justice, however, due to the “legal” process, that can’t happen. It’s absolutely ludicrous that a single decision cannot be made without a staggering multitude of appeals, delays, etc keeping things from proceeding. And if you’re an attorney, then you LOVE this, you’ve got more work than you know what to do with, but for society it is the injustice of the millenium.
Another 10 years and our legal system will be stymied to the point to where it won’t matter if you commit a crime because you’ll wait 10 years to come to trial for it! And we all wonder why the jails are so crowded! Hmmmm, that’s a hard one to figure out!
Chris Newsom was my son’s best friend. Our family is just sick. He was a wonderful young man with a kind, sweet, funny spirit.
He was raised in a loving home and in fact still lived at home with his parents and grandmother. When he left Sunday evening for a date with his girlfriend his parents never dreamed it would be the last time they saw him.
I have read all your comments and while I share your outrage and anger, I must ask that their death not be in vain. One of the evil monsters was released early from prison. How do we change the laws? How can Tennessee get tough on crime? How do we limit appeals? How do we achieve swift justice? I don’t know but some of you are lawyers and all of you are intelligent. Do we call Nancy Grace? Do we write our congressmen? Let’s not just talk and complain. Let’s do something!!! Let’s change the legal system – regardless of your politics or race. We all can agree on one thing – the system let this man out early when he had already been convicted of armed car jacking. Many of your comments on the facts of that evening are incorrect but your concern is right on target. Now what do we do? As Moms, as friends, as concerned citizens – how can we change this so the next monster does not get out for being a model prisoner?
Chris Newsom was my son’s best friend. Our family is just sick. He was a wonderful young man with a kind, sweet, funny spirit. He was raised in a loving home and When he left Sunday evening for a date with his girlfriend his parents never dreamed it would be the last time they saw him.
I have read all your comments and while I share your outrage and anger, I must ask that their death not be in vain. One of the evil monsters was released early from prison. How do we change the laws? How can Tennessee get tough on crime? How do we limit appeals? How do we achieve swift justice? I don’t know but some of you are lawyers and all of you are intelligent. Do we call Nancy Grace? Do we write our congressmen? Let’s not just talk and complain. Let’s do something!!! Let’s change the legal system – regardless of your politics or race. We all can agree on one thing – the system let this man out early when he had already been convicted of armed car jacking. Many of your comments on the facts of that evening are incorrect but your concern is right on target. Now what do we do? As Moms, as friends, as concerned citizens – how can we change this so the next monster does not get out for being a model prisoner?
Chris Newsom was my son’s best friend. Our family is just sick. He was a wonderful young man with a kind, sweet, funny spirit. He was raised in a loving home and When he left Sunday evening for a date with his girlfriend his parents never dreamed it would be the last time they saw him.
I have read all your comments and while I share your outrage and anger, I must ask that their death not be in vain. One of the evil monsters was released early from prison. How do we change the laws? How can Tennessee get tough on crime? How do we limit appeals? How do we achieve swift justice? I don’t know but some of you are lawyers and all of you are intelligent. Do we call Nancy Grace? Do we write our congressmen? Let’s not just talk and complain. Let’s do something!!! Let’s change the legal system – regardless of your politics or race. We all can agree on one thing – the system let this man out early when he had already been convicted of armed car jacking. Many of your comments on the facts of that evening are incorrect but your concern is right on target. Now what do we do? As Moms, as friends, as concerned citizens – how can we change this so the next monster does not get out for being a model prisoner?
I guess as I read through these blogs, who would ever understand why there is so much black on white crime. I mean all of the hate in these blogs, calling black people racial slurs, who could possibly understand why there would be any anger towards white people. My cousin, Jamie, was 13 yrs old when a guy she knew and his 3 friends kidnapped her, raped her, stabbed her to death and dumped her in a field behind a tattoo parlor. It was not all over the news…and FYI, the killers were 4 white men and my cousin was also white. They didn’t detail anything other than an article in the newspaper. They didn’t broadcast how the men cut each breast 50 times with a knife and then one of the perps cut out the star on her shirt for a souvenior. The media creates a lot of prejudices I believe through what they choose to air and not air. You see the black man from ATL shooting up the courthouse, you see these 4 men being involved with what they are….you don’t see the good things on TV that black people do, because that doesn’t sell papers and it sure don’t increase ratings. Evil comes in all shades and hatred solves nothing but creates more hatred. I can tell you right now, black people have been affected by this crime just as whites…and they are grieving for these kids as well.
Angel, I agree with you. I am a black mother and grandmother and my heart goes out to the families of the victims. I’m always sad to read about these kinds of crime regardless of the victims skin color. May God’s blessings united the black and white communities to join together to make Knox County a safer place for all races to live and work.
Dear Alicia -
I’m so sorry to hear that you and your family are personally affected by this tragedy.
I don’t know what it’s going to take to change the system. I practice civil law (in another state), but today I was in Metro Court because one of my clients had to testify against a woman that hit him on his motorcycle and left the scene (e.g., “hit and run”). I was with him because he was nervous and was intimidated to go to court. To make a long story short, I sat through several hours of Public Defenders plea bargaining with the judge to get reduced or suspended sentences. Many of the defendants/criminals literally had smiles on their faces after they walked away from the podium (as if they beat the system — which they did). Our criminal justice system is a joke. Lenient judges and lazy prosecutors are creating a turnstile court system with no accountability or deterrence. I was so angered (as was my client, and the testifying police officer). I don’t know what to do. As a lawyer, I fear retribution from my state bar association because it’s so Liberal. I’m afraid to “rock the boat” for fear of disbarment or sanctions. So I guess I am just as “guilty” (or rather, “apathetic”) as everyone else. I think it will take a concerted effort to try to make a substantive change. Letters to congresspersons, local officials, newspapers, forwarding news stories to friends, etc.
Angel: I got news for you, whites are fed-up with political correctness and handling blacks with kid gloves. You’re seeing a manifestation of outpouring that has been years of whites being told that they’re are inherently racist (even if it’s not expressly, but rather tacitly – just by virtue of being “white”). Whites have had it with being blamed for all the nation’s (as well as the world’s) problems. The double-standard in the media may very well be the proverbial straw that is breaking the camel’s back.
All this chaos, sadness, sorry, grief and anger… but no one has mentioned our Heavenly Father above.. Perhaps we should all stop and ask God for the strength we will all need to get through this pain.None of the negative comments and racial slurs will bring the couple back nor will it dole out the punishment that should be issued to these people that have committed such a horrible crime. So instead of writing to all the so-called important people and threatening to do this or do that,,why not let someone take over that we all know will be just and fair and strengthen us victims as well.
Roach is right about underreporting. Im not sure why this rather obvious statement has spawned this torrent of comments, mostly off-topic.
Brutha V,
I guess I don’t understand why these 4 men represent an entire race? So your a lawyer, do you not represent anyone that isn’t white? I think people get so involved with finding a reason to hate someone that they overlook the tragedy.
My husband and I have grieved for these kids, and we have prayed for their families non stop since we have heard the news. My husband is black, I attend a church with 90% black membership and my child goes to child care with other black children…and the outpoor about this crime has not been for the people who murdered these kids but instead for the families of the victims. I don’t think it takes Rev. Jackson or Al coming to Knoxville to know that it was a horrible crime, an unnecessary crime, an EVIL crime.
And for the record, not every person of race blames the white man for their problems.
Angel writes, “why there is so much black on white crime. I mean all of the hate in these blogs, calling black people racial slurs, who could possibly understand why there would be any anger towards white people.” This is the kind of demented liberal reasoning that encourages this sort of barbaric savagery.
The occasional frustrated epiteph does not justify rape. These guys did not rape Channon Christian or murder Chris Newsom for a “good cause.” There is no such thing. There is no excuse for this savagery, and nothing in America today (nor in it’s past) justifies this kind of barbarity. It is wrong. We do not act this way. We punish those who act this way. And there is no mitigating circumstance to be had, whether a bad name, frustration at poverty, or the fact that this girl was attractive.
We need to have confidence to impose standards. We can’t just ask Al Sharpton and Jesse to do it for us. They, and other black leaders, are out to lunch. With a few exceptions–Bill Cosby most notably–black leaders make excuses when blacks behave badly, especially when their victims are white. White people need to do this for themselves, because this is necessary for self-protection. Until white Americans get over their preoccupation with The Other and the guilt that this thinking creates, they will never run their own country and we’ll continue to go in decline. Not Jesse and Al, but we, Americans, with a white majority, must impose these standards on the criminals, the poor, the underclass, criminal minorities, and anyone else that does not behave the way we want them to and the way they should. This is the difference of conservatives and liberals.
If they’re guilty, they should be executed. People should carry concealed weapons in certain areas – or pretty much anywhere – to protect themselves.
I think there are several reasons why blacks commit so much crime. They come from broken, fatherless, welfare homes. These kids never become “men” in the true sense. But there may be a biological component too. Now that I’m a parent, one thing I’ve noticed is that young black kids/toddlers tend be more violent than their white counterparts. When I’m at stores, playgrounds and other places where kids are plenty, the black kids tend to rough-house more and display more agressive tactics. They act like baby thugs
One of the problems with this discussion is that we are speaking past one another. One group is saying, how do we stop this type of action which is not an outlier but an all too common type of black-on-white crime? The other is saying that such group thinking risks lumping in the good and the bad, creating despair among civilized blacks, and otherwise creating an atmosphere of excessive mutual suspicion and hostility, as well as injustice?
There are really two levels to discuss this. There is the question of individuals and the question of groups. Individuals should be judged as individuals; no one black person should be held to account for this individual crime other than the perpetrators. But sometimes we must deal with groups as groups, especially when we do not have the time or capcity to make an individualized decision. Likewise, we must judge groups when we look at group behaviors, statistics, trends, and the like.
On the individual moral level, there is no denying that this crime is chiefly a result of a major moral failing on the part of the criminals themselves. Blacks as a group should not be held collectively responsible for this particular offense.
That said, the issue is not what is right and wrong, but how to have social order, how to control not just blacks or whites, but criminals–the group–and the neighborhoods–also a group–in which they seem to thrive and multiply. People don’t do what is right (or wrong) chiefly because of their intellectual cognizance of the wrongness or the rightness of their acts, but because the have certain habits, expectations of punishment, sense of what is common and uncommon, role models, self-esteem, regard for others, moral sympathies, etc. This is where law and education and public pressure and group judgments and shame and all the other tools of social control come into play. I am saying that this has broken down with respect to the relations of the white majority (who also holds most of the power and wealth in our society) and the black underclass, which is largely poor, has greater levels of illegitimacy and crime, and has relatively little power in our society. This latter group must be controlled, both by the white majority and the black leadership. Without that control, blacks will suffer the worst, as they live amongst one another. But whites will too and have. This mission for control against disorder of all kinds and the education of ever class in society to work to their individual and our collective advantage is what used to be called civilization.
To quote Lawrence Auster, “The fact that people differ markedly in the degree of their self-control does not deny each personââ¬â¢s responsibility for his acts. However, the ultimate question that matters to us is not where the moral agency for crimes lies, but how to stop the crimes and forms of disorder. Some people are inherently more impulsive and disorderly than others, and require greater external controls. Thus separate schools for blacks and whites make sense because blacks require stronger authority and discipline than would be appropriate for whites, though of course whites require disclipine too. [c.r., I would disagree with this, not least because schools and other institutions can be effectively divided along other more individualized divisions, but I do think schools and classes should be divided by IQ, disciplinary problems, social class, etc.] . . . Speaking as if all members of all groups have equal self-control is a dangerous mistake, like believing that everyone is equally ready for democracy. This is not to say that there are different moralities. The same morality applies to all. But in order to live within that common morality, different people may require different types of social structure. America’s race-blind ideology prevents us from seeing or discussing these facts of life. It does not enhance our humanity, but harms it.”
Did this happen in the OLD CITY? and if so, people need to be aware!
How can the supposed friends of the families of Channon and Chris be so quick to declare this is not a hate crime? Why not wait for the information to come in before rendering a judgment on racial motivations? Chris was set on fire and Channon was beaten and raped before being killed, before being thrown into a trash can. Why the rush to judgment to declare their killers had no racial motive?
Of COURSE this was racially motivated. The two victims were targeted because they were white and young, and Channon was raped because she was an attractive white girl. Period. There’s a reason that black men rape white women at a rate that is ASTRONOMICALLY higher than white men rape black women. It’s “sticking it to whitey:”.
I would describe what has been happening to whites in many countries and for many years, as a true Holocaust. This is true Terrorism. But this reality is covered up by the powers of this world.
So the real question is: what is the proposed solution, since so many of you feel that blacks are responsible for so much crime? Lock up every single one you see?
Or should we focus on revamping our justice system to ensure that criminals of all colors serve the sentences they deserve?
And to go back to the under-reporting issue, I sure as hell wouldn’t want my child’s brutal rape and murder all over the national news, as I know the Christians and the Newsoms don’t.
For all you morons out there–this crime did not take place in the hood; it was the East Towne Mall area. Yes, it’s not the best, but certainly not the worst. Also, Chris did attend Halls High School WHERE THERE ARE BLACK STUDENTS! Agreed, there aren’t many, but the student population doesn’t care what color you are. All these BLACK students at Halls are well liked. I’ll make one thing very clear—FRY THE BASTARDS–ALL FOUR OF THEM!!!
This blog is rather mildly stated in comparison to the reality that the white race is literally being genocided by design. WHO is planning this? Why the same people who trafficked slaves in the first place, the same people who agitated for the civil war, the same people who created and funded the black “civil rights” movement, and the same people who own 96% of USA’s media that is covering up the horrific level of black on white violent crime:
Roach writes, “This is the kind of demented liberal reasoning that encourages this sort of barbaric savagery.” I guess I’m confused on why everyone is talking about an entire race and not the 4 men who did this. I don’t understand where calling black people “the N word” or referring to racial slurs solves anything. So because these 4 men did it, I should condemn an entire race. Should I believe that every black man sitting in prison right now is guilty because he came from a rough neighborhood. That’s what I am saying. I was robbed by gunpoint when I was 18 by a black man and never once did I decide to hate an entire race. In fact, as a Christian, I have forgiven this man…
I just think this incident is a way for everyone to justify their racist views. Just as 911 lead to people who were of middle eastern decent to be sterotyped as terrorist.
As far as people saying why is the black community not speaking out now when they are so quick to when its white on black crime. When white on black crime happens….the media is knocking themselves over to get to someone in the black community to get their views. Have you seen the media interview 1 black person about this crime? I don’t condone what these men did, I believe in the death penalty….I am just not racist. If it were black on black, I’d say they should face whatever penalty they are delt, if it were white on white….I would say the same. I DON’T AGREE WITH MURDER, I DON’T AGREE WITH RAPE, AND I DON’T AGREE WITH RACISM. God didn’t bring me in this world to hate people.
Angel, may I remind you of your earlier quote, “… as I read through these blogs, who would ever understand why there is so much black on white crime. I mean all of the hate in these blogs, calling black people racial slurs, who could possibly understand why there would be any anger towards white people.”
You imply this is simple cause and effect, a proportionate response to an atmosphere of white racism. It’s not. Words are one thing, rape and murder is another. And words are something else when they’re uttered in frustration over yet another black on white act of criminal violence.
PS I was shocked to hear you were robbed by a black man. Truly shocked. You mean it wasn’t a Chinese person or a white college student? Here’s a math problem for you. Blacks make up 12% of the population and 50% of the people who rob white people according to the NCVS. What does that tell you about the relative degrees of criminality of the two groups?
Perhaps all the lynchings of the past were justified. How come we never hear the details about why they occurred? My angers grows each day. I’m tired of no response to this growing problem of interracial crime. They’re all guilty. Including all the white folks who allow this to happen on a daily basis.
I can’t believe I read any of this website. Roach, from your postings, I have to imagine you struggled to make it past the third grade. Wow, it scares me that you live in the same country I do. I’m ashamed that we are both American but then again, I can’t allow you to define our country the same way you allow the four suspects to define a race. You should think about going to school and taking some classes on race, class, and gender. It seems you have already read the book “Lying with Statistics.” I’m sure your hollow arguements have done real well with those folks who live in a very black and white world–the same folks that support the current administration. It would be great if you decided not to have any kids–thanks.
Mike
Jack–are you serious or are you really as stupid as your post indicates? Don’t bother with a reply, I’ll never visit this site again and by the way, I provided a bogus email account. I don’t have any more time for this ignorance. I pity you.
Here’s a liberal who wants to see those men put to death. Your blaming liberals for everything is childish and takes the blame away from the real animals.
tenn_smoothie,
You need to get your facts straight before you start spreading them all over the net. Channon was a good friend of mine and having been in her tight group of friends I’ve been given details from her family and Chris’s and everything you have said is simply a rumor.
Some on this board have taken pains to state they do not believe it is a racially motivated crime. However, in the same post, they also state the young lady was abducted because she was white and attractive. So, IOW, it was not racially motivated…..yet in some ways it is….and this is lingering in the minds of everyone posting on the case. Otherwise the posters would not continue to point out that she was hurt because she was white and pretty. Some may say, white men could and would and have done the same thing to white females. True enough.
However, no matter how we spin it, the attackers were black and the victims were white. The host of this site has been trying to point out that this one incident fits the overall statistical pattern of increased black-on-white crime in this country. “IF” white people are so evil, the statistics should show a staggering amount of white-on-black crime. However, the stats and figures show a huge trend in the opposite direction.
There is a racial element to this story – both for this particular case and the nationwide situation at large – and it will not go away.
I am truly sorry to hear about what happened to these two young people. Roach, I can tell you care about this issue passionately. It just seems that your analysis is simply not that thorough. I have had the opportunity to spend time in a variety of countries, all more racially homogenous than the U.S. Although the levels vary based on the culture, violent crimes occur everywhere. More often than not, the perpetrators are those who feel economically and/or politically disenfranchised. Because their perspective is that they are on the outside of society looking in, they basically donââ¬â¢t believe in or buy into the system.
The irony is that even in a society deemed to be ââ¬Åhomogenousââ¬Â, people still find ways to separate themselves. Thus, if you are in any number of African countries, for example, instead of the stereotypes breaking down along racial lines, they break down along ethnic lines. A particular ethnic group is often deemed to be predisposed to crime. If this group is involved in a disproportionate amount of violent crime, however, it is always the case that they are also the group who wields the least amount of power. Thus, the accurate conclusion is that it is their perceived place in society rather than some biological predisposition which leads to these acts.
Although the U.S. has made strides, we still have a long way to go with respect to race. Fortunately for me, I was raised to buy into our system. As an African-American male, I was taught that in order to be considered equal, I would have to exceed expectations in every facet of my life. If I did that, despite persistent covert and overt racism, I could succeed. My black friends who are successful in life followed the same mantra. I am an attorney and I own a business. I have a diverse workforce which involves Americans of all stripes as well as Africans who migrated to the U.S. from a variety of countries. What is interesting about these Africans is their perspective on America. They know racism exists, but they still think this is a wonderful country that provides them amazing opportunities. Concepts like nepotism exist on a much smaller scale here. Thus, their perspective is the same one with which I was raised. Despite obvious flaws, they buy into the system and will, in turn, be successful.
The perpetrators of violent crimes like the horrendous murders which took place in Knoxville are in part the result of a segment of a subculture which believes any one or all of the following: if you are black, no matter what you do, you cannot succeed in America; white people are rich, black people are not; material wealth is the complete definition of success; the only way to ââ¬Åkeep it realââ¬Â is to try to be a thug, and striving for success is acting ââ¬Åwhiteââ¬Â. Criminals are often cowards who prey on victims they believe will be easy targets. These men did not commit these crimes simply because they are black and their victims were white. There is not a disproportionate amount of crime among certain communities solely because of race. It is more complex. Just like ethnic or religious discrimination, racism has disenfranchised a group of people, a certain segment within this group draws spurious conclusions about the world in which they live, and they then act accordingly without regard to whom they harm. Unfortunately, this happens daily both in this country and every other. Despise these men for what they did and not for the race that they are. Do this not because it is the morally correct thing to do, but rather because it is the intellectually accurate thing to do.
Quote from above: “Despise these men for what they did and not for the race that they are. Do this not because it is the morally correct thing to do, but rather because it is the intellectually accurate thing to do.”
Agreed. I believe this approach is also the moral thing to do. I also agree we must not make generalizations about the “entire” black population in this country. Yet, we must note, when whites committ inter-racial crimes, it is racism that is at fault. When blacks commit inter-racial crimes – well the reasons given for this are much more complex; racism is only a small part of the overall picture picture. This is where I say “bunk”. There is a double standard here. If whites committ inter-racial crime there is no question that the white is racist. If a black committs inter-racial crime; well racism is not really the cause here. Abay, we could argue all day about this, and I must agree with you that crime is wrong regardless who commits it, but there is a double standard in play here that is infuriating. For the past several decades unscrupulous black leaders and the MSM have taken the default position that all whites are racists. This pattern of reporting and accusation is the source of so much infuration among the white population. The white population is five to six times greater than the black population, yet blacks commit a significantly higher number of crimes against whites. Whites feel targeted by blacks for crime. The numbers support this. How can you explain this trend? Can you truly say that racism and hate towards whites is not present in the blacks who commit these crimes?
My father was poor and was on the outside looking in economically and socially. He told me many times that he was poor and never resorted to crime. He was always frustrated with the difficulty it took to earn a living. He never had any respect for people who used their poverty to rationalize their crime. People who have evil hearts commit evil crimes.
Again, I must agree with you that crime is evil regardless of who commits it. However, if we are going to leave race out of the picture, let us start with the MSM and the blacks who continually call whites racist at the drop of a hat.
Who gives a shit if its racially-motivated or not? Try them and execute them every time. These crimes will lessen greatly.
By the way, these guys are “savages” and deserve to be called such. We need to get back our societal backbone and let the criminals fear the law-abiding instead of the other way around.
I think all you people must be terrified to look at the truth. Those who are arguing about ignoring the race of the perps and those who are more realistic. Y
White on black crime always racist? OOOOh, yeah I bet. Black on white crime not racist? Ooooh no, they are just finding victims as they come. What a load of…
No wonder there is a ferment underway.
The statistics are there for anyone who wants to look at them, dodos. Speaking as someone who was almost raped and murdered by blacks, and who has known too many friends who have been, they do seek out white victims, they do cross into predominantly white areas and they do find them. They commit rape, especially interracial rape, at an astoundingly higher rate than whites.
Get off the pot.
Either face the stats or shut up.
Abay -
I found your post to be thoughtful and sincere; however, there are several fundamental flaws in your reasoning.
You state that, “More often than not, the perpetrators are those who feel economically and/or politically disenfranchised. Because their perspective is that they are on the outside of society looking in, they basically donââ¬â¢t believe in or buy into the system.”
As I mentioned in a previous post, history belies this Socialist mantra. I have provided several examples of this: crime (or lack thereof) during the Great Depression, the surge in crime during the 1960′s (one of the most prosperous times in US history, with very little unemployment). No, I believe low-life criminals “don’t believe or buy into the system” because they are lazy, uneducated, lack self-control and discipline, by CHOICE — NOT due to biological or genetic factors (or “oppression” — perceived or otherwise).
You stated that, “If this group is involved in a disproportionate amount of violent crime, however, it is always the case that they are also the group who wields the least amount of power.” This is yet another Socialist prevarication. If this is true, why then didn’t the Nazi’s stop using fear and intimidation when they came into political power? More often than not, groups that use fear and intimidation when they are out of power only magnify the use once they obtain power. This isn’t about the “haves versus the have-nots” – it’s about human nature (or “sin”).
You wrote, “Although the U.S. has made strides, we still have a long way to go with respect to race.” What, pray tell, does the U.S. have to do to deal with issues of race? I believe the free market does more for racial relations than coerced forms of “social justice” like affirmative action and workshops on ââ¬Ådiversityââ¬Â and ââ¬Åtoleranceââ¬Â. We need to understand that the U.S. allows freedom of association, as well as freedom FROM association. Let’s not force people to “integrate” with each other, because this only fosters resentment. Let the “invisible hand” of the marketplace dictate relations. For example, if a white person wants to hire a black person because he or she believes that hiring the black person would help his or her business, than he should do that for economic reasons. Who cares what his subjective reasons are. I think a “diverse” workforce is desirable (from a capitalist/economic perspective), but it shouldn’t be forced upon businesses. Marge Schott was an alleged Nazi that owned the Cincinnati Reds. However, she had blacks and Latinos on her team because she wanted the best players available so her team would win. Who cares if she secretly hated blacks and Latinos? If you’re black and you didn’t want to play on the Cincinnati Reds, that’s fine. But she paid Ken Griffy a lot of money to be on her team. Should Ken Griffy give a rat’s ass that Marge secretly disliked blacks? That’s up to him. But we shouldn’t force (or coerce) people to integrate. While it would behoove them to do so, let folks do what they want. The marketplace (and even Capitalism) does more for integration and ââ¬Ådiversityââ¬Â than feel-good government or social programs. As a business owner yourself, I’m sure that you agree with this.
“As an African-American male, I was taught that in order to be considered equal, I would have to exceed expectations in every facet of my life. If I did that, despite persistent covert and overt racism, I could succeed. My black friends who are successful in life followed the same mantra.” While I agree that people can succeed in life regardless of the obstacles they face (i.e., economic, physical handicap, etc.), I do not believe that blacks must exceed expectations to succeed. In fact, I believe that it’s just the opposite: blacks that usually under qualified or under perform are more likely to get hired, or not be reprimanded and/or fired. That is because businesses are forced to hire blacks and “diversify” their companies due to affirmative action and the fear of a race discrimination lawsuit. We see this in the government as well. As a lawyer that has had employer-clients sued for employment discrimination or wrongful termination, I’ve witnessed this first hand. Often, HR people keep less-qualified and/or under-performing minorities on the payroll to avoid a lawsuit, or even the appearance of discriminatory hiring practices. This is not a secret among people in human resources. They will have meetings to discuss the firing of a poor-performing minority and determine that they should just keep the under-performing employee to avoid a lawsuit. And I can assure you that “under-performing” is putting it mildly. Many of these minority folks are incompetent, which segues into my next example of why blacks don’t have to exceed the competency of whites: affirmative action in the educational realm. Blacks (and other minorities) are being accepted to schools with much lower standardized test scores and grade point averages. (yes, yes, I know, these tests — the SAT, ACT, LSAT, GMAT, MCAT, etc., etc. — are inherently “biased” against blacks and other minorities. Though I find it fascinating that recent immigrants from Asia can outscore whites on these “biased” tests) As a result, they are not competing at the same level as their classmates. However, because schools are more concerned with “diversity” and minority retention rates, they coddle these under-qualified/under-performing students and push them through school. This results in college graduates that are, essentially, incompetent. Furthermore, it perpetuates a feeling of entitlement and under performance.
You’re right, “violent crimes occur everywhere”. That is due more to human nature, rather than socio-economic factors. You support that thesis by your observation that even in racially homogeneous societies there is crime and division. This is true. We can point to conflict in most any country to deduce that. But here in the United States, we are inundated with the mantra that blacks are victims, and that whites are oppressors. Again, we are bombarded with this message ad nauseam. However, I believe the opposite. I believe that affirmative action and black on white crime support my contention that whites face more discrimination than blacks.
You said, “There is not a disproportionate amount of crime among certain communities solely because of race.” This is utter nonsense (I would say “bullshit”, but I’ll probably get censored).
Look at every major city in the United States. The worst areas most every major city is populated by minorities. I have lived in New York, San Diego, Los Angeles, the San Francisco Bay area, and several other smaller cities. It doesn’t matter what city it is, the worst area (not just for whites) is in mainly black areas. That’s why Michael Jordan, Bill Cosby, and Oprah Winfrey don’t live in predominantly black neighborhoods. You say itââ¬â¢s driven by economics (or disenfranchisement), but I say it’s cultural. Iââ¬â¢m certain that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie feel safer in some poor third-world country than they do in Camden, New Jersey, Detroit and Flint, Michigan, St. Louis, Missouri, Richmond, Virginia, Gary, Indiana. And look at the crime rates of cities with smaller black populations. I’m sure you’ll find that they “black areas” in those cities are more crime-ridden than the white areas. And these cities/areas are not just dangerous for whites, but blacks as well. Blacks face more crime and “discrimination” from blacks than they do from whites. As a black male, I would be much more concerned about being a victim of violent crime from a fellow black, than a white supremest or Klansmen.
I think you should re-read your post and reevaluate your philosophy on life. You seem like a hard-working, good-guy, who is falling into the victim mentality perpetuated by the left. It does not take super-human efforts to succeed in this (once) great country. Rather, I propose that if you are hard-working, honest, punctual, and willing to learn, you can do quite well in life. Recent immigrants (as well as illegal immigrants) that have little or no English-speaking skills, nor are “culturally American”, are a testimony to that fact. And United States history has shown that every other immigrant group has faced ethnic or religious discrimination has overcome adversity and done quite well: Italians, Irish, German, Slavs, Poles, Greeks, Russians, and Jews.
hmmmmm, I wonder if the majority of criminals are black why is it that when I look up my zip code and those of my families in the national sex offender registery….most of the perps are white? Maybe they have not heard of the statistics yet that have been thrown out by Roach and others on the website. I think someone should contact the government to let them know their are problems with their website.
And to re-state what I had said in the past posting….I am not saying that these 4 men did not seek out this couple because they are white, I am not saying that it is right that they raped and murdered the young woman nor shot and killed the poor guy. I am responding to an entire race being blamed. The people calling out the racial slurs….if you want to be angry, be angry at the 4 men who did this and pray hard for the families of the victims. I do not condone crime of any sort….AS I’VE SAID BEFORE EVIL COMES IN ALL SHADES. Satan does not discriminate….
I talked to my husband about the issue last night and he agrees, if the roles had been swapped it would have been considered a hate crime…and that there should be no double standard. But never has he blamed an entire race for what an evil person has done. Never has he came out and started calling white people crackers and yelling for shipping white people back where they came from. Those are the comments that I am angry about….hate fuels more hate.
The topic started out as a discussion of interracial crime, and the double standard of the media. Trust me, if two blacks had been car-jacked, raped, and murdered by four white men, it would be INTERNATIONAL news. That would be for two reasons: one, left-wing media bias, and two, such crimes (white on black carjackings and rape) are virtually unheard of.
Nobody is “blaming an entire race” for the crimes of these men. However, let’s not be ignorant about understanding that blacks commit violent crime (and interracial crime) at MUCH higher (in fact, exponentially higher) rates than whites and Asians. This is a fact. Blacks know it too. People will just disagree as to “why”.
I know, I know, blacks are being imprisoned at a much higher rate due to white discrimination.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/jailrairtab.htm
Jail incarceration rates by race and ethnicity, 1990-2005
Number of jail inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents
Year White Black Hispanic of any race
1990 89 560 245
1991 92 594 247
1992 93 618 251
1993 94 633 262
1994 98 656 274
1995 104 670 263
1996 111 640 276
1997 117 706 293
1998 125 716 292
1999 127 730 288
2000 132 736 280
2001 138 703 263
2002 147 740 256
2003 151 748 269
2004 160 765 262
2005 166 800 268
Note: U.S. resident population estimates for sex, race, and Hispanic origin were made using a U.S. Census Bureau internet release with adjustments for census undercount. Estimates for 2000-2005 are based on the 2000 Census and then estimated for July 1 of each year.
Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics Correctional Surveys (The National Probation Data Survey, National Prisoner Statistics, Survey of Jails, Census of Jail Inmates, and The National Parole Data Survey) as presented in Correctional Populations in the United States, 1997, and Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear, 2005.
Abay, two things. First, your analysis does not adequately explain the explosion of black crime (both black on black and black on white) as racial discrimination became less accepted, less overt, less institutionalized, and less insidious following the civil rights era. Second, I don’t think these cross-country comparisons are that useful for a lot of reasons. I agree that history, poverty, alienation and the like play some part in who is a criminal and a victim, both domestically and internationally. But even taking all that into account, it’s undeniable that the third world is more dangerous than the white European world, that Africa is more violent than Asia, and that Mexico is more violent than the US. And, more important, when cultures and races collide as they do in America and South Africa, the violence explodes.
As for Angel’s point, I think that she is clearly innumerate. Meaning she does not understand math and statistics. I say this because she has real trouble accepting that many of the truths about life are statistical in nature. She assumes everthing is about “the entire group” and she stupidly thinks that a few anecdotes about her zip code prove something about sex offenders as a whole. (Go check out my old zip code of 75206 and notice the proliferation of black and hispanic sex offenders.)
Murder is rare, as are other violent crimes. Most people are not violent felons. But when a group of people is 10X more violent, that’s a big difference. Why? Because even the low rates of violence among whites cause problems. We know that; we’re not indifferent to crime. Look at the numbers above, it’s about 1 in 100 whites incarcerated, i.e., 100/10,000. When that goes up to 7 or 8, that’s a big difference. Not knowing anything else, we must take that into account in making decisions about where to live, which bus to get on, which neighborhoods to walk through, etc. There’s no reason to “blame the race” and there’s no reason to hold it against any individual who shows himself to be civilized. But we don’t always have a time to play 20 questions and look at someone’s 1040 form. That’s the nature of statistical inference; it’s what we rely upon in looking at groups as groups, and it’s what we rely upon when we don’t have other, more granular data.
Finally, the cultural aspect and the “whites are the epitome of evil” message of our culture is undeniably a factor in all of this. How could it not be? Remember the LA Riots, the liberal media called it a “rebellion” and said it was time to get even for “12 Years of Neglect.” This background assumption that whites are evil easily translates into whites are rob-able, rape-able, etc. Until black leaders jettison their collective guilt-tripping of whites, whites will be collectively targeted for violence by that percentage of the black population that is inclined to be violent. There is nothing worse than the combination of the natural tendency of some people to be violent and the not-so-subtle message that such violence is justified. This is why wars are such cruel things; the sociopaths in our midst are given license to kill and, contrary to everyday life, are rewarded and praised for it.
Seriously, it’s notable that none of the critics in this thread have actually delved into any of the NCVS, BOP, or UCR statistics and said anything intelligent. And why? Because anyone who has done any kind of crime research knows about this disparity in criminality, and it’s undeniable.
It’s true some arguments can be made on the margins that drug offenses come down more heavily on minorities, or that the crack/power cocaine disparity is significant, or that misidentification probably leads to higher rates of black wrogful imprisonment. (Then again, these drug laws may be locking up lots of potentially violent people hard to catch otherwise, as I argued in another thread). But the NCVS data is the real proof in the pudding; it accords with the UCR data, suggesting that things are not really out of wack. And, finally, all of this data conforms with our life experience, our noticing of general lack of civility in black majority neighborhoods, and our knowledge of crime victimization from our own friends and families. We should be talking about how to fix this problem in a way that is cognizant of the racial reality, rather than retreating into liberal cliches about “crime is crime” or it’s just an individual thing. It’s not just an individual thing when the rate is 10X higher; it’s a unique group problem that must be addressed in a way that takes into account the group culture.
Memo to Bill Cosby:
Your lectures and speeches to the black community “ain’t workin’ ”
I am disappointed that the national news media has chosen to ignore this crime. I think anyone with a fair outlook would agree that this crime was racially motivated. I think itââ¬â¢s also obvious that hate crimes against whites by blacks donââ¬â¢t get the same media play. The pigs who committed this crime should be tried and executed.
That being said, we canââ¬â¢t use this crime to indict the black community at large. I live in Virginia and have several black friends who are good Christian people. They are just as outraged as me.
I didnââ¬â¢t ask them what they thought about Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton not showing up to condemn this vicious hate crime. Jesse and Al have their own agendas.
We cannot, and should not, attribute this horrendous crime to some basic flaw in the black male. These pigs donââ¬â¢t represent the black community.
I also think that, from what I have read, the families of Channon and Chris would not appreciate any indictment of the black community at large although I obviously canââ¬â¢t speak for them. We should condemn the national media for basically ignoring this. We should not condemn our black friends who are law abiding citizens.
Brutha V & Roach:
I know this is now off-topic because we are into a more general discussion than the particular horrendous events in Knoxville, but here goes. With respect to violent crimes, I will reiterate that it is more of a class/cultural issue than a race issue. If race were the only factor, blacks, regardless of class or education level, would engage in violent behavior disproportionately. That is to say that a black physician, attorney, or engineer would be just as likely to rob someone at gunpoint as the common street thug. If you are poor, living in an urban area, are male, come from a single parent household, and are African-American (and I mean American and not a recent immigrant from an African country), then you statistically are more likely to both engage in and be a victim of violent crime at a disproportionate rate. Much of that crime takes place within the community. There has been and continues to be a growing number of middle-class, predominantly black neighborhoods. For better or worse, they are like any other suburban environment-the houses are well-kept, the lawns are manicured, the people drive nice vehicles, and crime is low. Crime is low because of the absence of these other factors, not because the people are not black.
Living in or traveling to other countries is one of the best forms of education because it challenges one in a number of ways. In America, both blacks and whites still too often see issues in terms of race. It was enlightening for some of the African-Americans who traveled with me to African countries to see that the ââ¬Åoppressorsââ¬Â in these countries were black. Obviously, they knew this beforehand. But it really resonated with them when they witnessed it first-hand. If it were America, they would have viewed it in racial terms-those white people versus us. Instead, they viewed it for what it was-those with power discriminating against those without. The issue is the same with respect to violent crime in these places. Everyone is the same color. But just like here in the U.S., violent crimes occur at a higher rate among a certain socio-economic segment. I am not saying they are predestined to engage in this behavior, I am just saying that race is not the cause.
Every group which has migrated to the U.S. has faced some form of discrimination. Despite this discrimination, European immigrants pretty quickly got absorbed into mainstream America. There was no ââ¬Åone drop ruleââ¬Â like there was for blacks (one drop of black blood means you are black). Thus, today it is not uncommon for someone to say they are part Welsh, part Irish, and/or part Italian, for example. The discrimination faced by whites upon arrival simply did not rival the well-designed system which was slavery and then segregation. Itââ¬â¢s not just the happenstance of slavery which ended generations ago that is the problem. Intentionally designing a system which prevented blacks from reading, testifying in court, owning property, going to college, voting, marrying interracially, etc. to maintain as much control as possible took its toll. Despite the 13th and the 15th Amendments, the U.S. still needed the 1965 Voting Rights Act and the 1967 case of Loving v. Virginia to attempt to remove some of these obstacles. Assimilation was not an option. Thus, we have generations of people who wanted so much to be part of America but were forbidden. The result is people who (1) donââ¬â¢t think of themselves as American even though they are more ââ¬ÅAmericanââ¬Â than most of the population of the U.S. given how long their ancestors have been here, and (2) believe that, no matter what you do, the ââ¬Åmanââ¬Â is trying to keep you down. Although these are obviously not my views, I can understand why someone would think this if their people have been in this country for 400 years, but only had anything close to approaching equal rights for the last 30. People who move beyond this exceed.
As for HR issues with terminating underperforming minorities, I am familiar with the issue. I was an M&A lawyer for one of the largest law firms in the world. I then was in-house counsel for one of the largest corporations in the world. In the latter position, since I operated more like general counsel as opposed to a specialist, I did have to deal with those issues. If someone was simply a terrible worker, but tried to play the race card to save themselves, the black lawyers and white lawyers alike viewed it as a despicable act. In fact, it was probably viewed in a more negative light by the black lawyers. When one has faced legitimate discrimination, it is frustrating to see someone make an unwarranted claim.
Itââ¬â¢s funny to me that you think I might be the victim of some liberal or neo-Socialist conspiracy. As I stated before, I am an entrepreneur. I donââ¬â¢t like labels, but if you had to force me into a political category, it would be closer to libertarian than anything else. The best thing the government can do for me is to not impede my progress. My workforce is diverse because I believe it is best for my business. Incidentally, the Africans that have worked for me have outworked everyone else. I could incorrectly conclude that people from African countries are good workers. My conclusion, however, is that just like the steelworkers who came from Europe before them, the new immigrants are here for an economic opportunity. They work hard because they know the alternative is worse. Their race has nothing to do with it.
Abay,
Chris was set on fire. Channon was beaten, raped and strangled to death. This is hardly the time for you philosophies.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/pressrelease.htm
FBI Releases its 2005
Statistics on Hate Crime
Of the 6,804 known offenders reported in 2005, 60.5 percent were white, and 19.9 percent were black. The race was unknown for 12.3 percent, and other races accounted for the remaining known offenders.
Hate crime stats are a bit misleading, not least because Hispanics mostly count as white and because it’s hit or miss whether a crime gets classified as a hate crime. This one won’t, for example.
Incidentally, even those numbers show a disproportionate black hate crime rate, as they make up only 12% of the population. Sorry about your luck, David.
Hate crime statistics are not a “bit misleading” — they’re VERY misleading. Hispanics are classified as “white” when they are perpetrators, and classified as “Hispanic” when they’re victims.
Roach is absolutely correct when he mentions that this heinous crime will not be classified as a “hate crime”. Most black on white crime is not considered as such. He’s also correct in pointing out that the crime per capita (based upon race) is markedly disproportionate.
Abay -
Forgive me for jumping around with the following commentary, but I am writing during a very busy work day/week.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate the fact that we can have a dialog without using degrading rhetoric. I believe forums like this that all the exchange of ideas is invaluable, and I thank Mr. Roach, et al, for providing such a forum.
I think you and I are a lot closer in our views than I initially thought they were (or were not). I want to unequivocally state my position: I believe the problem of violence of blacks toward whites (i.e., interracial crime) is based on culture. I DO NOT believe it to be genetic, nor do I believe it to be economic.
To buttress your contention that it is a “class” issue, you provide as examples of doctors, lawyers, etc. However, I believe those folks achieve such goals by exercising self-control, discipline, respect, and hard work. They chose to cultivate those qualities. They did not become successful because they were rich and/or ââ¬Åprivilegedââ¬Â (or not poor); rather, they did not become criminals because they chose a more (much more) admirable route. Attributing crime to the poor does a disservice to those that have pulled themselves out of their wretched economic condition — me included. We still have a good amount of wealthy folks committing crime, albeit, white-collar crime (with the exception of Mr. Simpson): Kenneth Lay, Winona Ryder, The Menendez brothers, etc., etc. These “haves” did not commit their crimes because they were poor. Quite the contrary — they were all exceptionally wealthy. To reiterate my position, crime is not an economic construct.
You use a great word in your last post: “predestined”. I agree with you. Again, I do not believe that people are genetically predisposed to commit crime. I believe it is a free-will decision.
Why do you think Europeans (let’s not leave out non-Europeans, like Asians — including far-east Asians, as well as Indians, Pakistanis, etc.) were “absorbed into mainstream America”. Was it because they were non-black? No, I believe it’s cultural. I accept any person living next to me that is hardworking and respectful of my property and/or rights. Conversely, if I have a neighbor that is a threat to my property or well-being, I will be very weary of them — regardless of their race, ethnicity, gender or religion. However, we can deduce from empirical experience that certain groups of people have a proclivity toward certain behavior — whether good or bad. The central point of my thesis throughout this exchange has been this: black (African-AMERICANS) folks are much more violent than whites — both interracially, and intraracially. I believe it is due to their culture (which includes, but is not limited to, the demise of the nuclear family, popular culture — particularly gangster rap music — a fear and distrust of government and/or white people, etc.). Furthermore, black kids that are articulate and work hard in school are called “Uncle Toms” or are accused of “acting white”. They may even be subjected to taunting or physical harm from other blacks. Also, having children out of wedlock, or serving time in prison, is actually considered a badge of honor in many black communities. Such folks (not all blacks) tend to be disrespectful of authority and/or the law. In addition to all of that, these kids are being inculcated to believe that they are “victims” and/or “oppressed” by the man or the system. They truly believe that whitey is out to get them. This creates distrust of whites and the government, as well as a feeling of entitlement.
You’ve mentioned Africans several times now, so I am assuming that you are an immigrant from Africa (forgive me if I am wrong). I believe most people that come to this country can have a better life — regardless of their race or ethnicity (or religion). Jews have been, and continue to be, one of the most discriminated folks out there (and they get it from the black community as well ââ¬â look no further than the Nation of Islam, Jesse for his ââ¬Åhymietownââ¬Â comment, Rev. Al, etc.). Yet Jews have said “enough” or “never again” and have worked hard to become businessmen and professionals. They have never used “discrimination” as a crutch. And many successful blacks have used discrimination as a motivator, not an impediment, to success: Ward Connerly, Shelby Steele, and a plethora of others come to mind.
I agree, in theory, with your thesis that blacks have faced more discrimination than any other immigrant race or ethnicity (though I think the Jews are a close second). But my point is this: blacks just can’t seem to let go of the past. Italians (which is my ethnicity) were greatly persecuted when they immigrated to the United States. You may not know this, but many Italians were lynched in the South (he’s an article in the Black Commentator that discusses this: http://www.blackcommentator.com/109/109_italians.html Here’s another reference as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hennessey). Italians were indeed the “niggers” of European immigrants, partly because of their darker skin. Being catholic didn’t help them either. My grandparents (and parents) told me stories that blew me away. How the Irish folks in NYC (where weââ¬â¢re from) hated Italians and did everything they could to make them miserable (not all Irish folks, of course). But Italians finally (very slowly) assimilated and were, therefore, accepted by Americans. I think the reason is that they wanted to be Americans. They wanted to meld with others (the proverbial ââ¬ÅE Pluribus Unumââ¬Â). And do I dislike or distrust Irish people because of the sins of their fathers? No way. It never affected me directly, and that was then ââ¬â move on.
You site the “one drop rule” as an example of extreme bias toward blacks. Ironically, however, many blacks now use the “one drop” philosophy when claiming to be black for purposes of affirmative action. Most multiracial folks I know call themselves (or are called) “black” rather than “white” (See Barack Obama, et al). Itââ¬â¢s a total reversal of the past.
In sum, itââ¬â¢s almost impossible to paint races and ethnicities with broad strokes. We should look at each other as individuals, and not ââ¬Ågroupsââ¬Â. And when blacks start to consider themselves ââ¬ÅAmericansââ¬Â first, and stop using the rhetoric of slavery and oppression a crutch, white folks will start to think differently about them. But I for one am tired of the ââ¬Åvictimââ¬Â mentality of blacks, as well as the double-standard in the media. I believe whites in general feel that way and the frustration you are reading in these posts is a manifestation of that fatigue.
How about White countries stay White so we don’t have these problems?
There’s a reason White countries are successful and well, Africa never had a wheel when Whites went there.
Blacks can go to Africa, Asians to Asia, Hispanics to S.America, but where can Whites go once they are minorities in their own countries?
It’s about time we end the “diversity is great” LIE. When it gets to the point of wanting a safe and successful future for my family, I think it’s quite easy to point out why diversity doesn’t work and why homogeneous White and E.Asian countries are successful.
There’s only one race that has never had one great civilization to their name, no wheel, no written language. And we let them leech off our country as equals.
Brutha V & Abay are both of the belief that disproportionate depravity is not rooted in races genes. I support this belief. To indict a race of inherent corruption is a weighty thing.
That said, I’ll ask; Do those of you in this thread (Mr. Roach included) who believe that crime and skin color go hand in hand have anything but questionable crime statistics to back this up? The burden of proof is upon you to prove their crimes.
For all of you who think blacks are the only ones committing interracial crimes. Here you go. This is the type of racism and harassment that many blacks have to deal with.
Guard will ride school bus
1 boy caught and charged, another treated at hospital after race-motivated fight
By DON JACOBS, jacobs@knews.com
January 26, 2007
A uniformed security guard will be riding a Gibbs High School bus after a racially charged fight Thursday resulted in criminal charges against two teens and injuries to a third.
“We want to put a uniformed security guard on this bus for the time being,” said Russ Oaks, spokesman for Knox County Schools.
The move is a result of an 8:04 a.m. altercation on bus No. 66 as it carried students to the high school.
The fight erupted after a 16-year-old white girl taunted a 16-year-old black boy “with a racial slur and then hit him,” according to Martha Dooley, spokeswoman for the Knox County Sheriff’s Office. When the boy retaliated with a blow, two 15-year-old white boys ran from the rear of the bus and began fighting the older teen.
Dooley declined to specify the racial word used by the girl.
During the ruckus, one of the students shoved the 16-year-old boy’s face into a bus window, breaking the glass, according to Dooley.
The bus driver stopped on Harris Road off Millertown Pike, and the two 15-year-old boys ran off the bus. One of the boys was quickly caught, while the second continued to flee.
Dooley said the caught student will be charged with assault and vandalism. The second boy, who was still being sought Thursday afternoon, will face charges of assault and fleeing, she said.
The 16-year-old boy was taken by ambulance to East Tennessee Children’s Hospital for treatment of minor injuries.
Dooley said there was no video camera on the bus. The investigation is continuing, she said, and it was unclear if any charges will be filed against the 16-year-old girl.
Oaks said of the 325 buses that transport students in Knox County, 61 have video cameras on board.
Oaks said the uniformed security guard would continue riding bus No. 66 until school officials deem otherwise.
“We’ll assess it from time to time,” he said.
The principal at Gibbs High School will investigate the incident, Oaks said, and conduct a disciplinary hearing for the involved students. The principal has five days to make a decision about disciplinary action, he said.
Don Jacobs may be reached at 865-342-6345.
Yeah, it’s really an important social interest that black boys can beat up white girls in response to some teasing and being hit by a girl. Men don’t hit girls, remember. Or did they not teach that to you growing up in the projects, tripelm?
Chris Hayes, there is nothing questionable about the crime statistics I’ve quoted. The NCVS and the UCR are the gold standard of criminological research. One is based on all the arrest data nationwide, the other on a significant survey of tens of thousands of people nationwide asking about crime victimization and the details of that victimization. There is no doubt the statistics I’ve quoted are correct and, more important, I’ve carried my burden of proof and laid out the facts as I’ve seen them and provided links to supporting data where I thought it was needed. What have you done to advance your position, other than repeat some liberal cliches?
First, I didn’t grow up in the projects. I know you like to think all black people did. Your comments just proves your ignorance. Surely they taught you not to sterotype. LOL. You people kill me.
Second, the girl should not have been making racial slurs and putting her hands on him. I guess it was o.k. for her to do that right?
Roach-
I’m disgusted in knowing that you’re in such a high position of power, and you have such evil thoughts and opinions about a “group” of people. i went to knoxnews and read all the articles. i went to youtube to watch the video in her memory. i watched another video of a candlelight dedication to her. and the only thing i felt was pain. not “oh poor WHITE girl,” but “oh poor peer. another GIRL who’s in school like me. another GIRL who was just trying to have a nice date with her boyfriend as i do.”
we’re discussing media and their portrayals of white crime versus black crime. what about the crime that DOESN’T hit the national/international news feeds, but stays local? and local news and newspaper crime listings are only the icing on the real crimes that occur in cities. most go unreported and are swept under the rug as if the victim never was.
i understand people’s atempts at making this racially motivated. however, it is an attempt out of hate, prejudice, and ignorance. the comments that have been made are racist, whether you denounce being racist or not. pain is pain! you can feel for channon and chris without having to show your skin color first.
a lot of you posters should feel like throwing up in your own mouths for the complete and blatant racist remarks that you all have made. in the aftermth of their horrible deaths, you wish to stump on their plots first? how dare any of you attempt to overshadow precious lives lost to further your racist agenda? pray about that!
college girl,
Well said!!!!!!! Thanks for articulating your points. It was brilliant. You have shown who is smart and who isn’t. It is sad that Roach and others would use a tragedy like this to express their racism and political views. My wife is so upset about what has happened to Chris and Channon, and yes she is black. It is good to know that there are some intelligent,rational people on here.
This is not a racial thing, but Jasper and Duke and Rodney King were? Open up your eyes. Blacks commit more crime in general and more crime against whites than blacks. Many of those black on white crimes are notable for their brutality and cruelty. This is a serious problem.
And when a black criminal’s default decision upon seeing a pretty white girl is to rape and murder–a desire celebrated in so much rap music and black popular culture–I hope you forgive those of us who think, “Hey, maybe these people who repeatedly say they hate white people really do hate white people.” I mean, seriously, I don’t recall too many black people or black leaders expressing much sympathy for Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman. I remember cheering. Were you in a different country when that went down?
It is not racist to notice racial differences and to back up those observations with facts.
PS triplem, men shouldn’t beat up girls. I guess wherever you grew up, you didn’t learn that. I guess OJ was acting in self defense too.
Tripelm, I’m saddened you never learned growing up that it’s wrong for men to beat up women. I hope you don’t end up in too many abusive relationships.
I also think it’s sad that no one has refuted anything factually that Roach and others have written. We’ve only seen accuasations of racism, which usually just means you’re winning an argument with a liberal.
Finally, as for crimes in the news we don’t hear of, how about this 8 on 3 racially motivated assault on whites by blacks in Long Beach; as long as crimes of this brutality occur, don’t expect us white people to get upset over a black guy that gets in a fight with a girl and starts swinging, a basic schoolyard fight:
LONG BEACH – Two victims in a mob beating on Halloween broke their silence Monday, addressing the media for the first time since the lengthy trial in their case began.
The girls, Michelle and Laura, said they felt compelled to speak out against what they called the manipulation of the facts by defense attorneys for 10 of 12 accused minors. The Press-Telegram has opted not to identify the minors, witnesses or victims by their full names out of concern for their safety.
The 19-year-olds spoke to the Press-Telegram a few days after the beating, along with the third victim, 21-year-old Loren. They remained silent once the trial began Nov. 28.
But Monday marked the end of defense and prosecution arguments. The case was handed over to Long Beach Superior Court Judge Gibson Lee on Monday afternoon. Lee ordered everyone to return to court on Friday, saying he would need a few days to review the case before ruling.
Seeing the incident hashed out daily in court has brought fresh pain to their wounds, the victims said Monday night.
“It’s like it didn’t stop that night,” Laura said of the attack. “It’s still going on.”
The girls, who did not testify in the case, said they were heartbroken to hear their friend Loren – who attended but did not participate in the press conference – and other witnesses denounced as liars by the defense.
A number of defense attorneys focused on an emergency room doctor’s testimony that Loren told him she drank the night of the attack, something she steadfastly denied on the stand.
Michelle, Laura and their mothers said the doctor made a mistake.
All of the girls were asked a series of questions as part of their basic medical history, including whether they ever drank, smoked or did drugs, they said.
Loren said she drank in response to the general medical query, but did not mean she was drinking that night, they explained.
As far as defense claims that the melee was started when Loren slapped one of the accused, the victims said they and their friend struck defensive blows after they were attacked.
“The group was so large, there was no way we were going to start something,” Laura said when reporters pressed her on how the attack began.
As the two friends sat side by side with their arms linked, they recalled the incident. There were moments, they said, when they feared they might not live.
“When I looked over and I saw her on the ground getting her head kicked in by a guy that was 6 feet tall, I thought that was it,” Michelle said as she broke down in tears.
That boy, Michelle said, has yet to be caught and the knowledge that he and others who participated in the attack are still free frightens them.
But the defense argument that the real culprits remain missing, and that therefore their clients are innocent, is absurd, the victims said.
“I was there and I remember their faces,” Laura insisted.
“I don’t understand how (the defense) can argue they were the ones closest to us, but say they weren’t involved,” Michelle said. “It’s frustrating.”
What is most frustrating, the victims said, is the lack of responsibility on the part of the 10 accused minors.
All 10 youths have been charged with felony assault for the beating, which occurred at about 9 p.m. in the 3800 block of Linden Avenue near a haunted house that drew crowds to the area that night.
A hate-crime enhancement was added to eight of the 10 youths’ charges, stemming from victim and witness accounts that the mob of black kids yelled racial slurs as they pelted the white victims with newspapers, fruit and pumpkins; then beat them to the ground.
Watching the minors giggle and laugh in court was infuriating, they said.
“It would make me feel better … if they were made to think about this, about what they did.” Michelle said. “They’re not taking this seriously, they’re laughing and thinking this is a joke.”
Since the attack, the women said they’ve had to deal with physical and psychological scars.
Laura was knocked unconscious by a blow to the head with a skateboard, then kicked, punched and beaten with tree branches as she lay unconscious on the ground.
She received a concussion and multiple bruises and contusions, as well as a skull fracture. She suffers from slurred speech, dizzy spells, memory loss and blurry vision, she said.
Michelle suffered numerous bumps and bruises to her head and to the lining around her lungs.
Most seriously hurt was their friend Loren, who suffered a dozen fractures to her face, including her nose and her jaw. She is scheduled for surgery next month to repair the damage to her left eye socket, which has caused her eye to recess.
The college photography student was forced to drop her fall semester classes and doesn’t know if her vision will be permanently damaged.
She also will have to have several of her teeth, which are dying, extracted and replaced, the girls said.
“On all three of us, our bodies weren’t that bad but our heads were covered with bumps,” Laura said. “They were going straight for our faces and our heads.”
While recuperating from those injuries has been though, it’s the emotional trauma that continues to take its toll, they said.
The girls said they never leave their homes alone, not even to run small errands, and are in therapy now.
After learning friends of the minors attend the same community college, Michelle and Laura said they are terrified to go to school.
“My whole life has changed and I don’t know when it will go back to normal,” Laura said. “Or if it will ever be normal again.”
college_girl:
I think your name says it all: college kids (and most of their professors) have no concept of “reality”, and live (or want to live) in a Utopian society that does not exist.
You wrote, “what about the crime that DOESN’T hit the national/international news feeds, but stays local? and local news and newspaper crime listings are only the icing on the real crimes that occur in cities. most go unreported and are swept under the rug as if the victim never was.”
I agree. However, the crimes that are given the most attention and/or publicity are those that involve white on black crime . Inexplicably, the media elevates white on black crime to lead stories, and the majority of crimes (black on white, or black on black) are either relegated to a back page, or not reported at all. We hear more about blacks not getting served in a timely manner at a Denny’s, rather than the epidemic of white on black crimes. Facts and/statistics have been provided to you by objective government sources (I think, if anything, they are biased toward white people. Again, they include Hispanics as “white” in the perpetrator category, but “Hispanic” in the victim category).
You wrote, “i understand people’s [sic] atempts [sic] at making this racially motivated. however, it is an attempt out of hate, prejudice, and ignorance. the comments that have been made are racist whether you denounce being racist or not.”
As Mr. Forrest explained above, when people start dropping the “r word” and resorting to Ad Hominem attacks, that usually means that they are unable to refute a thesis or position, and have nothing substantive to add to a conversation. Your comments epitomize that general rule.
It’s really sad that you’re attempting to label every person that has written about the disparities of interracial crime as “racists”. What about the mantras from the left for “tolerance” and “diversity”? I guess that only pertains to “skin color” and “sexual orientation”, and not “opinion”. You’re the typical lemming that is a product of an educational system dominated by leftists. So your ignorance isn’t really your fault, per se. I was fortunate enough to go to school later in life (because I had to work to support my family), so my morals and values were not formed or dictated by some Socialist with a PhD.
Triplem: Despite glaring differences in interracial crime, you come up with an abstract news story of kids fighting on a school bus. Are you serious? You conveniently (either maliciously or negligently) fail to observe the crime statistics that are provided. What you provided is referred to as an aberration or an anomaly. We’ve stated that white on black crime is atypical, but never have we said that it was nonexistent. Your citing of the incident between teenagers without even knowing the facts of the “crime”, is truly a red herring, and shameless attempt to distract readers from the facts presented.
Why isn’t this in national media? Seriously.
These types of crimes are wake up calls that all should know about.
With all due respect to the victims. The crime itself is a reminder to all of us, whether you get out of it – know the area you are in, be cautious of your surrondings, what would you do in car jacking situation, always lock your doors, etc. etc.
These type of brutal crimes make us scratch our heads and wonder how / why can something like this happen. We need to be reminded that it can and does happen and we need to be prepared as it can happen to anyone.
W
Seriously.
“As an African-American male, I was taught that in order to be considered equal, I would have to exceed expectations in every facet of my life. If I did that, despite persistent covert and overt racism, I could succeed”
Well that teacher certainly didn’t do you any justice. You may have achieved the same results if you were taught that you can be anything you want to be, that you could achieve any goal you wanted to achieve without all that other noise. That’s the message I received growing up. “You can be anything you want to be, you can even grow up to be president some day.” Maybe it’s time for the teachers that are telling the youth that the system is racist, unfair and putting other groups at a disadvantage to spin a more positive message.
As a person of mixed Native American and European ancesrty I can’t decide who makes me the most sick guilty White liberals who make excuses for Black thugs or the thugs themselves. If proven gulity in a court of law these animals should be kiled and kiled quickly.
Why do we even allow these low-IQ, violent black savages to live in our advanced White civilization? Send ALL blacks back to Africa and demand a refund for defective merchandise.
I’m in Canada, and if I posted a comment similar to even the most “moderate” of comments above, the Canadian Intelligence Service would go through great lengths to obtain my IP adress, proove that I made statements that were “likely” to expose people to hatred or contempt, and I would be charged, sued and/or imprisoned.
Keeping that in mind, similarily heinous black-on-white crimes have been commited in Canada, without so much as a blog about it, because of the forementioned reasons.
So I can’t make a comment at this time.
I have been posting articles like this and ones like the Wichita Massacre, the Zebra Killings and the most recent atrocities committed on Holloween against innocent whites to all my liberal friends and family members in the hope they will wake up as I did when the hypocricy of the media coverage (or non-coverage) is exposed. I know I’m probably wasting my time, but I have to try. Thanks Chris for your insightful comments on this crime against humanity perpetrated by the Orcs among us.
James N. Markels wrote:
“I’m not angry at the riff-raff. But I find the ease and speed of the racist comments to be disturbing. That black-on-white crime is more prevalent than white-on-black crime is worth nothing, but then terming such perps as “savages” and such only fuels racist fires on both sides, to no good end.”
You might want to get used to it James…the diversity house of cards is about to come crashing down thanks to events like this and there isnt much the mutilcultists can do about it. Far from extinguishing racial tensions that the MSM was hoping to effect by burying news like this, they are having quite the opposite effect. Worse is better in the grand sceme of things I suppose, but how many more Whites will have to fall victim before the tipping point is reached?
Ah…just found out abot this as well. This latest benefit of diverity occured almost 3 week ago. How many of you have heard even about this? We Whites are truly on our own now.
http://www.wftv.com/news/10753871/detail.html
Hey, College Girl, I was almost going to say people like you kill me but really – they don’t.
Well, Roach, I had forgotten about this post until I saw you spouting ignorance over at Eunomia -
As for your comment “Roach ââ¬â Jan. 26, 07 at 05:13 PM
Chris Hayes, there is nothing questionable about the crime statistics I’ve quoted. ”
When I wrote:
“chris hayes ââ¬â Jan. 25, 07 at 05:51 PM
Brutha V & Abay are both of the belief that disproportionate depravity is not rooted in races genes. I support this belief. To indict a race of inherent corruption is a weighty thing.
That said, I’ll ask; Do those of you in this thread (Mr. Roach included) who believe that crime and skin color go hand in hand have anything but questionable crime statistics to back this up? The burden of proof is upon you to prove their crimes”
I was referring to:
” Roach ââ¬â Jan. 25, 07 at 02:25 PM
Hate crime stats are a bit misleading, not least because Hispanics mostly count as white and because it’s hit or miss whether a crime gets classified as a hate crime.”
Yes, I know you are speaking specifically about hate crimes here, but it’s the same issue – statistics are often flawed to begin with, and can often be read any way one chooses. As we both know, the most accurate crime stats are on homicide and even in those considerably accurate statistics to find something as huge as entire groups of people having a genetic propensity toward immorality is a pretty good trick. Could we be trying to justify previously held opinions, just maybe?
Also, tell me, Roach, when exactly did I (your words) “repeat some liberal cliches?” I’m not resting on cliches, you bigot. I’m just being reactionary and leaning on some old Jewish writings:
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” – Maybe I’d have your understanding if you’d let me borrow your translation that reads “Let us make man in our image, and maybe we’ll make some blacks, Arabs, and Hispanics too”
If you look around you’ll find this next verse referenced in another discussion with some stone-throwing ignorant zealots:”ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High”
So, Roach, why don’t you just come out and say what you mean, like this comment from the preceding thread? :
“Barry ââ¬â Feb. 4, 07 at 01:55 PM
Why do we even allow these low-IQ, violent black savages to live in our advanced White civilization? Send ALL blacks back to Africa and demand a refund for defective merchandise.”
You, sir have an agenda, and it’s not a wholesome one.
Chris Hayes said:
“You, sir have an agenda, and it’s not a wholesome one.”
Oh, I see. I suppose in your eyes it’s wholesome to let blacks run amok, robbing, raping and killing whites while whites merely grovel before them and beg them to “be nice”? I mean, heaven forbid that whites should join together as a group and do anything effective enough to stop being targeted by hateful racist blacks, right?
Take your multi-cultural “paradise” and shove it.
If Most crimes are based on social-economical factors
why do the rich Black Footballs and Bball Players end up in court?….Id say it genetic…see Haiti and all of Africa for Savagery reference…And white Liberal Cowards would have us live with these folk??..I don’t think so..You Whites who suck up to Black folk are filth..you may as well have been there holding Channon down…
Hopefully college girl will be the next to be surrounded by a pack of beasts while White “men” stand by quivering like a jellys in case anyone calls them a “Racist”..Roll back in time folks this kinda stuff was why the KKK was formed…A time when Whites could walk the streets unmolested..a time before the fruad and White women beater MKL “Backed by Jews” subverted the USA..
Reg Davis, Barry, Roach and whomever else is annoyed by anything I’ve said in this thread.
I’m not a “multi-cultural Liberal”, even though you’d love to paint me that to fit your biases. Anyone who knows me would call me, at best, a paleo-conservative. (I didn’t vote for Bush because he’s way too liberal). I do think that there are cultures worth defending, and cultures that should be isolated. The question in here has been if those cultures can be changed, or if the people who hold to them genetically are incapable of anything different.
To throw out some examples of countries and football players is a weak minded attempt, at best, to show that “all blacks are genetically pre-disposed to immorality”. Are the larger cities in Africa a mess? Yes. Is Haiti a mess? Yes. Well, then we have to ask, are the predominantly white cities in the U.S. a mess? Yes. Are the predominantly white cities in Europe a mess? Yes. People are people.
There are blacks who target whites with their hate, and there are whites who target blacks with their hate, and they both blame their situation on the other instead of putting in the hard work to be first discipline themselves to live right, have charity, and serve others selflessly. (For the record, I mean the New Testament kind of charity, not the handing out money so you can claim you’ve done your part kind of charity).
What’s the difference between corrupt dishonest immoral “white liberals” and corrupt dishonest immoral blacks? They both learned their behavior from parents and peers, but one group went to college to learn how to justify their behavior.
To deny that people can repent is denying the efficacy of Christ’s Atonement, and throws his whole Gospel out the window. We are all free to choose. That’s a basic principle of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Claiming you’re the only people eligible for His Grace is one of the most evil, arrogant things I can think of, and if you read the New Testament, is exactly the mindset the Pharisees had. Christ had much harsher words for them than the fornicators and thieves.
And when you rant about “liberals”, you’re ranting about people like the Sadducees, who were rationalizing to do any old thing they wanted. The Pharisees and Sadducees hated each other, and, even though they both claimed to be “right”, were actually enemies of God. There were people outside of those two groups during Christ’s ministry, and there are people outside those groups today. When you scream “liberal” at anyone who disagrees with your bias, you reveal yourselves as the Pharisees you are.
I’m sure a few of you have some handy ways of contorting a few scriptures to suit your purposes, but I’ll invite you to keep your heresies to yourselves. Looks to me you’ve already got enough damnation to work through.
If you want to make things right, go to church and get a pile of Bibles. Then go door to door in one of the black neighborhoods you despise. Teach people that we are children of God, and that God has a plan for all of us. Then teach them that plan. Teach them to pray, and pay attention to the promptings of the Holy Ghost so they can know the truth of what you’re teaching. Teach them how to repent. Teach them that they can change how they are living, and show them that those changes will help them be happier. Teach them that Jesus of Nazareth lived a perfect life that we can follow as an example, that His teachings bring peace, and that when we make mistakes, we can be forgiven. Teach them that repentance is possible because Jesus suffered for our sins in Gethsemane, and hung and died on the cross so we can be resurrected and live again.
Am I some crazy street preacher? Nope. I’m not even the hyper-active evangelical I probably sound like in here. Just a guy that works 60 hours a week to (barely) pay the bills and puts in some time helping out at church. I bring up Gospel principles because I believe that Christ’s Gospel is the only solution to the worlds problems.
Want to be happy? Go serve somebody. Works for me.
I saw Kenny’s post after I’d started mine. He provided a better Savagery reference than Reg Davis tried to come up with in the preceding post.
So re-forming the KKK is the best you can come up with Kenny? I don’t know about you, but I’m for Christian values. Your post shows you are not. Whatever culture it is you’d like to see defended, I’ll put it on the death and hate loving scale right next to the liberals.
Real “Men” fear God and serve the Lord. A real man wouldn’t hope that College Girl would get raped. That’s the kind of thing a rapist would say. Wake up, read your Bible and repent. Please!
Hayes,
Although some harsh things have been said on this board….things I would not say, Mr. Roach’s approach has been informed by the numbers. They tell a story of crime and who is doing it. It is not racist to report this. I do suspect, Mr. Hayes, that you are not able to handle any point of view that challenges your idealistic worldview. Numbers have a way of doing that, do they not?
Charles,
Thank you for your tone. It’s obviously lacking in this thread.
First, we discussed the accuracy of statistics, which Mr. Roach himself admits (though selectively) are not concrete. I’m not calling anyone racist for reporting numbers – I’m calling people racist for using numbers to justify their racist views. This has presented itself basically as “more blacks commit crime, therefore black people are born corrupt in a way that white people are not”)
Second, the issue is not who is committing crime. I don’t disagree that a disproportionate number of crimes is committed by black people. The debate is about the cause of this lop-sided immorality and criminal behavior. Is it inherent genetically, or is it something that can be changed and overcome? My understanding of the doctrine of Jesus Christ leads me to believe that people can change, and all people are similarly capable of this change.
The opposing view in this debate, one espoused by Mr. Roach, among others, is that some ethnic groups are going to predominantly be more corrupt than others from birth, regardless of environment. I believe this view denies the efficacy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and denies the mercy and justice of God. It suggests that some people are part of God’s plan, and others are not. It’s not a new concept, but it’s also not true or scriptural (unless you count the doctrine of the Pharisees as scriptural).
I do have an idealistic worldview in the sense that I think with God all things are possible. The solutions to the world’s problems are never the world’s proposed solutions (like running separate schools and having a different set of standards like Mr. Roach has proposed elsewhere). I can “handle” any point of view, but to have any integrity there are points of view I will reject. I cringe at philosophies and theories founded in the pride and hate of heretics, and I will fight tooth and nail against them. Stopping crime by perpetrating more crime has never been the way to go. Are there liberals who want to excuse sins? Yes. Absolutely. Am I one of those liberals? No. Do I have some weird “I’m guilty because I’m white” complex? Not at all. I think we need to punish criminals, not races. I think our judicial system is a corrupt. I think our legislative system is corrupt. I think our Executive branch is corrupt. And I think all of these are only as corrupt as the general populace, white, black, purple, whatever, will allow it to be. If you want less corruption in high places, start with repentance in the low places. I do believe we are supposed to be actively involved in our nations affairs, including politics, but teaching repentance to the masses is how Christ got things done, and will continue to be the only truly effective method of changing a nation. I know that God lives, that Jesus is The Christ, and that God has a plan for us. I know these things through the convincing power of the Holy Ghost, and that anyone who humbly asks our Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, can have that same witness.
Hayes,
Well, there are some things you say that I can agree with. Much more that I question.
I still do not believe Mr. Roach is a racist as you seem to want him to be. I will challenge you here; you called him a bigot in an earlier thread and then lectured us about the love of Jesus and how we should repent and love each other. Mr. Roach has not – to the best of my knowledge – used invective against you. He did say that you were using liberal cliches for your arguments; but I do not think that warrants the title “bigot”.
The black community continually rails at all whites as bigots. It has happened so much that I do not even pay any attention any more……….until the last few years when I have seen numbers of vicious attacks from blacks against whites go unreported in the MSM. Are you going to lecture the black community about the continual stream of their hate against all whites? Is it just possible that blacks do hate whites simply because we are white? And if this is so, why do you not address this and condemn it equally? Are you going to condemn the MSM for reporting white against black crime, but not black against white crime? IOW, the verbal threats of vengeance from the black community are now becoming physical reality. Yet, when we point this out, not just from emotion, but from statistics, we are called racist. The anger you are seeing from white people is because they feel, that regardless of what approach they take to the problem of black crime, they will be branded racist.
I, too, would prefer to keep the law color blind. If a person commits murder, then they pay the penalty, regardless of what skin color they have or what culture they are from. Unfortunately, this is not the environment we live in today. The so called hate-crimes laws that have been passed in recent years is an example of this. If a white person is murdered by a minority person, the hate crimes designation is rarely used. However, if a white person is the aggressor, then the hate-crime law is brought into play. All violent crimes are hateful and should be treated as such. However, our legal system now applies the law based on skin color. That is a travesty and that is why so many people are angry. If you are a white person, you lose either way. This is racist, immoral, and wrong. White people are treated as being more guilty under our current system of law regardless of whether we are victim or aggressor. Certainly I agree with you that our legal system is broken badly. It has been broken by racist meddling and philosophy.
Charles,
I agree completely that the MSM and our legal system are unbalanced in their treatment of racism among black people vs. white people. Those who promote and sustain these hypocrisies are damned fools.
However, it’s not the point I’m debating with Mr. Roach. In calling Mr. Roach a bigot, I do intend it in the most negative sense – you’ll see no backpedaling definitions from me.
I became familiar with Mr. Roach when he posted some comments at this link http://larison.org/2007/01/17/obamarama/ . In my view, that discussion was basically Roach calling black people unchangeably evil. I called him on it, a few people said I’d misunderstood, then he affirmed my first reading. He then threw out a few actions he thinks we should take, all of which are contrary to anything I’d call correct.
As I see it, his core concern in these issues is not the lopsided treatment of black on white racism. He’s viewing this as a symptom of a larger problem: that black people are inferior to white people. Any quoting of statistics I see from him, in my mind, will be tainted with his hateful racism and seen as self-serving. His underlying disdain for non-white people could be nothing but a radiating core for his discussions of Israel, blacks in America or immigration.
As for Mr. Roach and his use, or non-use, of invectives against me, I think he would agree that there are few labels he would intend to be more pejorative than “liberal”. And it still hasn’t been answered – which “liberal cliches” did I employ?
Machiavellian methods (such as the segregative actions proposed by Mr. Roach) are hypocritical for those claiming moral superiority, and use of those methods to “defend a superior culture” automatically negates any claimed moral authority. If you read the older definitions of bigot, it includes a hypocritical connotation. I’ll go with the older definition in this instance.
You asked “Are you going to lecture the black community about the continual stream of their hate against all whites?” Here’s how I’m tackling that. First, don’t treat black people any differently than white people. Living in a historically racist area, this is noticed frequently. I don’t give extra attention or go out of my way. I’m not some liberal suck-up saying “I feel your pain” or feeling guilty about who did what to whom hundreds of years ago.
I participate in missionary work at my church, and in addition to a few families, I’m currently helping teach some high-school kids the Gospel. Turns out some of these kids are involved in a local gang, including a boy that lives a few doors down from me. Some of these kids are black, some are white. That’s how I think our beautiful country can be changed – not heavy handed policies and angry shouting.
it would funny if revenge killings took place upon these yard apes. Niggers have gotten more violent because we whites have become too soft on them. Our sick sad society makes us feel as if being white is somehow a crime for slavery that didnt happen in my life time. Start hanging niggers up like christmas lights in public and they will behave themselves. We need to stop being pussies, freakout and riot in black neighborhoods when shit like this happens. After many pits of nigger bodies are filled maybe then we can get the attention of our lawmakers and the media that we want justice.
revenge, I recognize your style. Weren’t you a speech writer for Saddam? You have a gift. Thanks for sharing.
This is the first time I have read this blog. I am amazed. Is it possible that anybody breathing imagines that the murder/rape of Channon Christian and her boyfriend were not racial hate crimes? Oh my God! This is too much. I knew liberals were nutty, but some of you folks are perfectly suicidal. One crackpot actually suggested that somebody take “diversity” classes. Diversity?? My God, you fools. Don’t you know this whole “diversity” schtick is just a scam promoted by the same people who think our borders should be wide open and it will be wonderful if we some day resemble Zimbabwe or Surinam? I have worked overseas most of my life and know more about “diversity” than most of you, I would bet. Diversity leads to nothing but chaos, which is where our country is headed. Just wait until the economy goes down the tubes. You will really savor the wonder of diversity. To end, let us all pray for the souls of those two young people, understand that they were murdered primarily because white liberals have encouraged a racial minority to cultivate hatred and resentment against whites, and the police systems needed to keep violent criminals off the streets have totally broken down, again thanks to liberals. I might add that those same liberals had better pray the U.S.A. holds together. If, as is possible, we go into an economic depression which sparks inter-racial conflict (really, really possible) the first targets of those rednecks and right-wingers you so love to hate won’t be people like the thugs who murdered this couple. It will be you. Don’t mean to be alarmist or threatening, but them’s the facts, folks. Violent conflict is almost inevitable in a “diverse” society such as the one mutating in America, and when the people divide into tribes, the first to go are those who have betrayed the tribe. And believe me, you will be remembered.
We have the same problem in Britain – where the national msm go crazy if a black is attacked by whites but playdown the huge numbers of attacks by blacks against whites. The proportion of black crimes against Asians, whites or other blacks is far higher than for any other racial group. Everyday sees more murders , rapes and muggings by young blacks and the only way liberals can deal with it is by saying that these muderous young thugs haven’t got over the “legacy of slavery” yet !! Everyone, white, black or brown, knows that most black areas are more violent than corresponding brown or white areas. Britain was once one of the safest countries in the world to live in but since the start of mass-immigration by Afro-Carribeans it has become one of the most dangerous in Europe. Sadly , for the bleeding heart liberals who are commenting here, this is not a racist thing to say – it is , quite simply, the TRUTH.
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