I just read the full text on Drudge. Here’s the takeaway:
America’s basically good, but still has to work out its racial issues. Black people used to have it worse, and we need to acknowledge progress.
As for Reverend Wright, no one’s perfect. I liked some things my minister did and didn’t like others. Sure he hated white people, but he had soup kitchens too. Plus, he’s like family. As for where Wright’s wrong: black people have problems primarily because of racism, I agree, but we need to get beyond blaming whitey. Whitey’s playing ball, more or less. Further, someone like Wright doesn’t realize that white people have problems too because a lot of them are hard-working, poor, and buffeted by the forces of globalization, just like black people are.
I’ve known bigoted black and white people–including my own grandmother–and didn’t throw them under the bus for a single wayward remark (or in Wright’s case 20 years of highly refined incitement to racial arson). Also, I love my white mom, just in case anyone forgot about her.
Let’s talk plainly: for someone as nuanced as me, single-issue explanations based on conspiracies about other races are not entirely accurate, but this kind of “folk wisdom” is common among older blacks. Maybe if you all weren’t segregating lunch counters and calling us nigger every five minutes, these older people would chill out. I’m the middle man here. After all, I’m half white. These hateful feelings that I’m giving you some insight into are a bit of a generational thing, and I’m also a Gen Xer.
Ultimately, we all need to understand each other and reach some Hegelian synthesis of social solidarity. The root of that solidarity is a frank acknowledgement by whites that most black problems are caused directly or indirectly by the past actions of white people, as well as white capitulation to “fear” today; at worst, blacks merely have “complicity in our condition.”
But there is some hope: black and white people can unite around fleecing rich people, attacking corporations, and expanding government programs. This will help all kinds of poor and middle class people, and therefore both groups can achieve racial harmony by uniting around the Obama candidacy. The speech ends with a nice vignette about a tender moment between a little white girl and a nice old black man illustrating that very possibility: black and white people sometimes get along, especially when they’re working together on the Obama campaign.
In fairness, this speech does address some of the criticisms I have made, showing that he’s more sophisticated than Hillary and her tone deaf, avoidant responses to controversies. He articulates where he agrees and where he disagrees with Wright. He basically said he thought the good outweighed the bad. He portrayed a more positive vision of America than Wright, pointing to the possibility of racial peace (by emphasizing class struggles and nuanced historical understanding (i.e., mentioning the slaveowner ancestors of his wife and his racist grandmother)), and, as he often does, Obama showed some understanding of the roots of white resentment in a way that was not a caricature.
Of course, this speech will not make Wright’s words go away. Seeing him holler “God Damn America!” is pretty powerful. It seems even with this explanation that there’s a point where someone decent and intelligent, someone who had a loving white mother and loving white grandparents, would distance himself from a white-hating crazy person like Wright, even if he would tolerate a wide range of other disagreeable statements by a pastor or family member.
I do predict the media will be enthralled–Sullivan already is. This speech will appeal to a tableau of common media attitudes: belief in America’s deep corruption, coupled with a belief in the possibility of progress; it will testify to Obama’s fundamental reasonableness and moderate tone; it will position him again as a “racial healer”; it will appeal to the healing power of words and rhetoric by a man with such a mediocre record; and, it will show the “horse race” folks that he can take a controversial campaign fast-ball and swing hard, nearly hitting one out of the park. This speech will definitely keep Obama in the Democratic Party game, at least, and stop the bleeding that the Wright controversy portended. It does little however to assuage the concerns of thinking people that his close association with Wright shows that Obama’s a moral idiot and a calculating coward, who cannot stand up to other black leaders, in spite of his claim to be a healing figure.
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So I commend you for watching Obama’s response to this whole debacle, and I must say, I was really surprised at the depth and quality of this post – particularly in light of the shallow and tawdry comment you left on my site.
I want to encourage you to adopt a different view on Rev. Wright than your preferred caricature of him as a “white-hating crazy person.” Frankly, that’s not just an emotional response, it’s flat out wrong.
As a white seminarian in Chicago who’s spent some time engaging liberation theology and Trinity UCC, I know that comments such as “the United States of White America” are referring the American social institution of racism, not indicting whites on the whole. I’ve seen Rev. Wright preach. I know white folks who are members at Trinity UCC. I know many more who agree with Wright’s basic theological premises.
At any rate, I don’t expect to change your mind on this, but please consider the possibility that your caricature of Rev. Wright is an over-simplification at best – and a callous misrepresentation of an extraordinary man and community leader at worst.
Peace,
TR
Wright was gleeful at the death of thousands of Americans on 9/11. Wright embraces black nationalism. Wright espouses absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theories about the government creating AIDS and the CIA selling crack in the ghetto. Further, this is a guy for whom every black problem is rooted somehow in “white racism.” In his vision, blacks are the elect and whites are “original sin.” This is heresy of the worst sort; it’s the worst kind of materalist based envy masquerading as social justice. And, when it’s not overtly hateful, it’s usually just dishonest and ineffective. I’m not impressed with your “engagement” with liberation theology. It’s a heresy no different than the idea of Russia as the Third Rome or other nationalist invocations of Christianity.
What this whole episode really reveals, as did the OJ Simpson verdict, is how much hostility there is in black America that whites paper over and are not aware of. Whites stupidly project their own individualist outlook and magnanimity upon other groups, other groups that are in fact hateful and tribal. Even Obama himself, in spite of his “on the one hand, on the other hand” schtick, is basically selling Wright’s message (racism everywhere, socialism good) in the highfalutin language of University of Chicago instead of the vernacular a few blocks south.
I don’t think pointing out the white congregants at Trinity UCC really has any bearing on whether Wright is racist or not. From Wright’s preaching, it is quite clear that he has a very negative view of white America. That some whites may share this view doesn’t make it any less negative or hostile.
It’s sort of like the pre-Civil War pro-slavery arguments that pointed out that there were also numerous black slave owners in the U.S.
Tom Ryberg’s comment is proof of that literacy is wasted on a shallow and shabby intellect.
The bottom line is that the crazy Rev. Wright spreads unscientific and monstrous lies, such as the US government creating and spreading the AIDS virus. As Michael Gerson said, if that were true, one would be duty-bound to overthrow such a government.
Instead, Wright cadges for government funds on the one hand, but curses it with obscene lies on the other. He’s a scoundrel. So is Tom Ryberg.
And Obama.
Chris says something nice about Steve Sailer so Steve returns the compliment. I wish I was a member of a mutual admiration society, but I always seem to alienate everybody.
Obama makes a faux appology for his faux holy mans 20 plus years record of heresy and hatred. The MSN shovels it in with both hands like a fat kid at a pie eating contest and declares all is forgiven. Was there ever any doubt in your mind that this would happen? People like this Ryberg really want to let the Obamas and Wrights of the world have a pass. Clearly, no double standard or intellectual dishonesty is too embarrasing for them to embrace if it serves their ends.
BTW, both Roach and Sailer write and write well,about interesting topics give it a try sometime P. III
Mr. Roach (et al),
I’ve directly experienced Trinity UCC as a visitor who got to actually hear a couple of Wright’s sermons in their entirety. I’ve gotten to know Trinity indirectly through some of my closest friends and favorite faculty members who go there. Also, I’ve witnessed from living on the south side of Chicago what tremendous community impact Trinity has.
You’re free to watch the 30 second sermon snippets and come to whatever conclusions you will, but from my vantage point, the proof is in the pudding: generous, good, joyful and loving friends; life-saving community ministries; fiery, passionate, – and yes, imperfect – leadership.
Peace,
TR
P.S. Sophia, I’m not sure how to respond to you other than to say that I disagree with Wright regarding the US gov’t and AIDS. I really have no idea why he said that.
Also, I find your personal attacks to be unwarranted and mean-spirited. Disagree with me all you want. But you don’t know me – so please don’t attempt to impugn my character.
P.P.S. T. French, no free passes for Obama, Wright, Hillary, McCain, Bush, or anybody else. As I tried to explain just now, I rank deeds and words in context far higher than out of context sound bytes.
Sounds good Tom… Post something in U-tube by this so-called reverend that doesn’t make me think he doesn’t really mean it literally when he says, “God damn America, God DAMN America…” Mr Obama sat in those pews for years and listened to that sordid type of hate speech aka “social gospel,” and only now that the rest of us knows that he sat there (providing at least tacit agreement and approval) does he publicly condemn the words. Truth be known, Mr Obama attended several black churches in Chicago besides Trinity to build support among his then mostly black constituency; but back then, he wasn’t all that concerned about offending “white sensibilities.” He was expected to sit there and accept the blather, chiming in with some head nods, raised hands and an occasional Amen Brother! At this point, I’m not certain WHAT the Obamas REALLY believe about ANYTHING. Turns out he’s just a political beast just like the rest of them, spouting whatever it is he thinks will get him elected at the time… As I said, show me Tom…
Phil,
Other than my own experience that I’ve already shared here, I really doubt that anything I can offer is actually going to sway you one way or the other. You seem like a decent guy, but seriously – are you really going to be convinced by anything I come up with? Probably not.
But I do want to tell you why I don’t agree that Jeremiah Wright is anti-American or anti-white: it’s possible to hate America’s systems of oppression without hating America itself. You can also hate systems of white oppression without hating white people or whiteness itself. Now, I imagine you and I won’t agree on what constitutes “systems of oppression,” but understand that Rev. Wright is operating from that framework: total condemnation for the oppressive system, not the people operating within that system. That’s what he means when he says, “God damn America – that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people.”
Also keep in mind that this has been a very one-sided media spin cycle, comprised of 30 second sound bytes. We got to see was not a planned discussion of systems of American oppression to the uninitiated, but rather fiery sermon snippets to a group of people who already accepted that premise.
30 second sound bytes are, however, sufficient to rally rabid home-grown terrorists to flooding Trinity UCC with firebombing threats, and death threats against Rev. Wright personally. My prayer for today is that it gets no worse from here.
Peace,
TR
Hitler didn’t hate Jews. He just hated their oppressive behavior, such as breathing, procreating, failing to bow before Aryans, etc.
Your exquisite defenses are missing his tone: he hates white America. He hates white people. He wants to advance his tribe at our expense, and he blames white people for almost every problem facing black America. Obama doesn’t hate whites; he just thinks they are playing ball and need to continue to do so. Wright and Obama both fail to take stock of the fact that the black family and the black community experienced more degradation and decline after various discriminatory laws were lifted and things like the Great Society and Affirmative Action were put in place than they did before. The disorder released by the 60s, soft on crime judges, bastard-subsidizing welfare programs, and warehousing of poor, fatherless families, as well as the decline of moral leadership by black leaders and the utter corrosion of black popular culture, has a lot more to do with black regress than imaginary white racists or “structures of oppression.” The problem with the structural argument is that it’s overbroad. I’m sure you define as any test from life where blacks don’t do well. I suppose gravity is a structure of oppression. And the law of supply and demand. I say that basketball is institutionally racist, because there’s so few whites in the NBA. It must be right. There can’t be some other explanation, like differeing levels of talent and interest between the races?
Forget the speeches by Wright. Go look at the church’s website (before the stuff about unwavering dedication to black values was removed).
It’s absolutely clear what is being preached at that church. They are very up-front about being commited to Africa, first, last and always.
I think your summary of Obama’s speech is spot-on. His idea of unity is to gather all those wanting something for nothing into one mob for looting America’s most productive people.
So to you, my defense of Rev. Wright is just like being a Nazi apologist. Oh, I get it – because Rev. Wright is the same as Hitler.
Nice.
You seem to be intent upon disparaging this man no matter what, which is, of course, entirely your prerogative. Yet, your impression of Rev. Wright appears to be only based on your interpretation of “his tone”, as filtered through the ridiculously narrow lens of a few of the worst sermon snippets that could be found after an extensive search.
However, my impression of Rev. Wright is based on personal experience with him, his church, and his parishioners. I don’t feel like I’m somehow “missing” anything about his tone or otherwise, that you have been able to glean through your much more limited perspective.
As to the rest of your comment, well, you’ve got your version of history, and I’ve got mine.
Happy Holy Week,
TR
I like this site. Folks are disagreeing without being uncivil.
You’re right Tom, changing my mind now will be tough. I’m a 27 yr vet of the marines and air force, and hearing those little clips, short as they are, damning our country and telling outright lies about it will be difficult to overcome. From a fellow ex-marine it was a stab in the heart. It will take a whole lot more than another clip about say…, giving your heart to Jesus, to convince me that Obama didn’t sit there in the middle of that vocal vileness without walking away because he was only concerned about managing his voter base. If I’d have heard my priest say such things from the pulpit I would have exploded from the pew. I can’t imagine ANY context that would rationalize the public spouting of what I heard in those clips; and can you tell me what else he might have said in his “sermons” to provide this supposed “context” I keep hearing about? What are we missing? Why shouldn’t we be as outraged as so many of us apparently are?
“…can you tell me what else he might have said in his ‘sermons’ to provide this supposed ‘context’ I keep hearing about? What are we missing?…”
See for yourself:
Rev. Wright after 9/11 – in context.
The context behind “God damn America”.
As you will see, even a few more minutes of context on either side of the infamous quotes paint a vastly different picture of Rev. Wright than what we’ve been fed over the last two weeks.
Peace,
TR
P.S. Phil, I’m not going to continue to hijack this thread, as Mr. Roach has already been more than gracious and I have a blog of my own. Please direct any further discussion on this matter over there. Thanks.
[...] March 24, 2008 — Tom Ryberg Phil, in a recent discussion with me on Rev. Wright, raised the question: …If I’d have heard my priest say such things from the pulpit I would have exploded from the [...]
As long as everyone is chill, making arguments, supporting them if necessary, and not freaking out and insulting people, you are all welcome to stay and visit and debate as long as you like.
Thanks, Mr. Roach.
I came across something today that speaks directly to this question of whether or not Rev. Wright “hates white people”. It is an article written by a white member of Trinity UCC. It recounts the story of how his African American wife, also a member of Trinity, had initially broken their engagement because she didn’t feel that she could marry a white man. Upon finding out, Rev. Wright’s response was to ask her to “drop everything” and come to Trinity. There, he spent four hours counseling her, explaining that “racial divisions were unacceptable…no matter how great or prolonged the pain that caused them. God would not want us to assess or make decisions about people based on race. The world could make progress on issues of race only if people were prepared to break down barriers that were much easier to let stand.”
Following this ordeal, he presided over their wedding.
These are clearly not the words and actions of one who “hates white people”. I think this is why we need to be willing to give benefit of doubt when we’re presented with only a skewed perspective of someone or something.
Peace,
TR
There were top Nazis in Germany who pulled strings for their Jewish friends. There were slave masters who freed their slaves and set them up on farms. In other words, there are general rules and exceptions.
The tone of his speech is one of victimization, Marxist categorizatin of the races, and a view of whites as the top of the racial hierarchy and as deserving of being treated as a group and knocked off the pinnacle. He justifies the worst anti-American and anti-white tripe because he’s a simpleton or a demagogue or both.
Look the guy very recently gave Farrakhan a big award. Farrakhan hates white people. If he himself is a middling figure between normal preachers and Farrakhan that doesn’t redeem him.
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[...] whole point of Obama and his One America rhetoric is to get everyone united over the transformational power of a policy of fleecing the rich . . . this, a group that will soon have to be defined very expansively to achieve Obama’s [...]