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	<title>Comments on: Economists and the Bailout</title>
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	<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/</link>
	<description>Paleoconservative Observations</description>
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		<title>By: Jeanneen Griffin</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6949</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeanneen Griffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How do you model &quot;human action&quot;?  Too many unknown variables.  I am not a mathemetician, but it would seem more sensible to use qualitative or subjective methods as the primary means of predicting future market movements and quantititative methods as a check.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you model &#8220;human action&#8221;?  Too many unknown variables.  I am not a mathemetician, but it would seem more sensible to use qualitative or subjective methods as the primary means of predicting future market movements and quantititative methods as a check.</p>
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		<title>By: RJS</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RJS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While the article is interesting and I agree with it, the root cause of the current down turn and the Great Depression are not part of the normal business cycle.  The genesis of the current recession lay in the &quot;Sub-Prime&quot; mortgage.  In and of themselves the sub-primes were not too great a problem, as they would have been localized.  But, when Sub-Prime, read unsecured paper, loans were bundled as securities the infection became system wide.  Incidently, there is aname for selling unsecured paper as securities, it is called fraud.  The twenties had their bogas holding companies.

Too soon old, too late wise!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the article is interesting and I agree with it, the root cause of the current down turn and the Great Depression are not part of the normal business cycle.  The genesis of the current recession lay in the &#8220;Sub-Prime&#8221; mortgage.  In and of themselves the sub-primes were not too great a problem, as they would have been localized.  But, when Sub-Prime, read unsecured paper, loans were bundled as securities the infection became system wide.  Incidently, there is aname for selling unsecured paper as securities, it is called fraud.  The twenties had their bogas holding companies.</p>
<p>Too soon old, too late wise!</p>
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		<title>By: EconMonkey</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6946</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EconMonkey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a different life, when I used to work more regularly with numbers as a management consultant, there was a rule about how many significant digits could be presented to clients.  The rule basically said that any significant digits trailing the decimal point were discouraged, because it conveyed a sense of false precision.  Rounded numbers and ranges were preferred to whole number answers, i.e. &quot;losses could be $100-110mm/year&quot; rather than &quot;losses could be $115mm/year&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a different life, when I used to work more regularly with numbers as a management consultant, there was a rule about how many significant digits could be presented to clients.  The rule basically said that any significant digits trailing the decimal point were discouraged, because it conveyed a sense of false precision.  Rounded numbers and ranges were preferred to whole number answers, i.e. &#8220;losses could be $100-110mm/year&#8221; rather than &#8220;losses could be $115mm/year&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David Manley</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6943</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Manley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whenever a person borrows too much, there are two people at fault; the person who borrowed more than he should have, and the person who lent him more than he should have.  Especially if the lender is lending so that the borrower will buy more of his stuff.

Speaking of numbers, it&#039;s amazing how anytime a number is thrown into an excel sheet or onto a powerpoint it automatically assumes some sort of authority.  Many people tend to forget another MBA rule, GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

I think there is another MBA rule that was forgotten at our peril.  All value is based on future cash flow.  So all these quants that came up with amazingly complex mortgage backed securities didn&#039;t seem to notice the very simple fact that home prices had no relation to buyer&#039;s incomes or potential rental revenue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever a person borrows too much, there are two people at fault; the person who borrowed more than he should have, and the person who lent him more than he should have.  Especially if the lender is lending so that the borrower will buy more of his stuff.</p>
<p>Speaking of numbers, it&#8217;s amazing how anytime a number is thrown into an excel sheet or onto a powerpoint it automatically assumes some sort of authority.  Many people tend to forget another MBA rule, GIGO &#8211; garbage in, garbage out.</p>
<p>I think there is another MBA rule that was forgotten at our peril.  All value is based on future cash flow.  So all these quants that came up with amazingly complex mortgage backed securities didn&#8217;t seem to notice the very simple fact that home prices had no relation to buyer&#8217;s incomes or potential rental revenue.</p>
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		<title>By: Roach</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s like the newbie Lt. who is lost but insists:  this river is not on the map!!!

Numbers have the appearance of certitude and precision, and people like this b/c it makes for nice charts on powerpoints.  

I think also Americans consume too much is a bit simplisitc.  We&#039;re not collectively retarded. But so long as wealth continued to grow as it did, people continued to consume more sure that a bonus check, refi, or something else would allow them out of the hole.  We&#039;re all tightening now, we the same basic people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s like the newbie Lt. who is lost but insists:  this river is not on the map!!!</p>
<p>Numbers have the appearance of certitude and precision, and people like this b/c it makes for nice charts on powerpoints.  </p>
<p>I think also Americans consume too much is a bit simplisitc.  We&#8217;re not collectively retarded. But so long as wealth continued to grow as it did, people continued to consume more sure that a bonus check, refi, or something else would allow them out of the hole.  We&#8217;re all tightening now, we the same basic people.</p>
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		<title>By: EconMonkey</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6941</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EconMonkey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quantitative/statistical economics has been inevitable ever since Black-Scholes.  The notion that value can be quantitatively (read: rationally) determined mathematically, let to atrocities like the Value at Risk model (VaR), which is standard MBA-fare now for how portfolio risk should be measured.  Never mind that VaR totally failed and got us into our current mess, as well as other quantitative models like mortgage securitization default modelling, etc.

Unlike Taleb, I&#039;m not entirely dismissive of Gaussian mathematics as a lens through which you can see the world and predict the future.  I certainly have no better, rational, internally consistent, and theoretically justifiable suggestion for how people should make decisions under uncertainty.  

That said, risk managers surely ought not to rely so much on quantitative models, and they ought to employ a qualitative &quot;common sense&quot; test.  With the benefit of hindsight, the qualitative flaws in the quantitative models are quite apparent.  Why wasnt this forseeable?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quantitative/statistical economics has been inevitable ever since Black-Scholes.  The notion that value can be quantitatively (read: rationally) determined mathematically, let to atrocities like the Value at Risk model (VaR), which is standard MBA-fare now for how portfolio risk should be measured.  Never mind that VaR totally failed and got us into our current mess, as well as other quantitative models like mortgage securitization default modelling, etc.</p>
<p>Unlike Taleb, I&#8217;m not entirely dismissive of Gaussian mathematics as a lens through which you can see the world and predict the future.  I certainly have no better, rational, internally consistent, and theoretically justifiable suggestion for how people should make decisions under uncertainty.  </p>
<p>That said, risk managers surely ought not to rely so much on quantitative models, and they ought to employ a qualitative &#8220;common sense&#8221; test.  With the benefit of hindsight, the qualitative flaws in the quantitative models are quite apparent.  Why wasnt this forseeable?</p>
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		<title>By: EconMonkey</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[EconMonkey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Manley wrote:  &quot;I remain convinced that the largest root cause of this recession is the trade imbalance with Asia, fueled significantly by China’s undervalued fiat currency, and the asset bubble that resulted from their reinvestment of cash surpluses back into the West.&quot;

This is the long-winded way of saying what you avoided saying:  Americans consume too much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manley wrote:  &#8220;I remain convinced that the largest root cause of this recession is the trade imbalance with Asia, fueled significantly by China’s undervalued fiat currency, and the asset bubble that resulted from their reinvestment of cash surpluses back into the West.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the long-winded way of saying what you avoided saying:  Americans consume too much.</p>
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		<title>By: David Manley</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Manley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is exacerbated because we have an interdependent, global economy but also have numerous central banks pursuing what they perceive as their own national interests.  This results in all sorts of unhealthy, artificial imbalances that eventually have to collapse.   

I remain convinced that the largest root cause of this recession is the trade imbalance with Asia, fueled significantly by China&#039;s undervalued fiat currency, and the asset bubble that resulted from their reinvestment of cash surpluses back into the West.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is exacerbated because we have an interdependent, global economy but also have numerous central banks pursuing what they perceive as their own national interests.  This results in all sorts of unhealthy, artificial imbalances that eventually have to collapse.   </p>
<p>I remain convinced that the largest root cause of this recession is the trade imbalance with Asia, fueled significantly by China&#8217;s undervalued fiat currency, and the asset bubble that resulted from their reinvestment of cash surpluses back into the West.</p>
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		<title>By: noodleguy</title>
		<link>http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/economists-and-the-bailout/#comment-6938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[noodleguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/?p=1685#comment-6938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So in other words a fellow who recognizes the importance of Black Swans? Bravo.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So in other words a fellow who recognizes the importance of Black Swans? Bravo.</p>
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